The Ta 152 was a development of the Fw 190D. There was a
short-span Ta 152B version and a long-span Ta 152H version.
The Ta 152H was an excellent high-altitude fighter, but appeared
too late, and few became operational. The Ta 152s were often
used to protect jet fighter bases. 215 built.
|A three-view drawing (1660 x 1150)|
S. Round The Tempest was the "fastest and most effective" best BRITISH fighter of the war, NOT some world wide undisputed "wunderwaffe" that had no peer. Fast and powerful, oh hell yes, but the final variants of the P-47, Corsair, and especially the Ta 152 which you grossly underestimate, (British superiority complex maybe it seems) were all more than capable of fighting it on as good or better (in some ways) terms. The typhoon was a match for early radial 190's, but it's Sabre engine was notoriously unreliable at that stage, had a weaker tail section than the temp, and a much thicker than necessary wing which caused needless vibration. It had serious issues with inline engine Dora model 190's, and wasn't even CLOSE to being a match for Tanks 152. The sheer British hubris in asserting it was is truly staggering. Also, don't try and pull that muh "we wouldve won the war without the yanks!" BULLSHIT. No you fucking wouldn't. Why do you think Churchill practically soiled himself at the thought of U boats, or ships like the Bismarck and Tirpitz reaching open ocean? Rhetorical question, it's because they could quite easily cut those ever so think supply lines from Britains overstretched empire and suffocate it. Don't act like you Limey's didn't try your damndest to take every ounce of credit for victory in Europe. You know damn well your predecessors did, in addition to trying to make the US look "incompetent". "Anyone want a special relationship - its going cheap - free to anyone stupid enough to take it on - because it isn't worth a damn!" Even your leaders back then weren't this arrogant and stupid. Your delusion knows no bounds.
|Paul Scott, 24.01.2015|
Amazing fighter from Focke-wulf
What is my preferred placement of guns for a fighter in WW2, nose or wing?
Cudos to the Ta 152.
In testing, the IL-2 with heavy cannon in the wings did worse compared with a heavy cannon in the prop hub of a single seat fighter for accuracy. Thus, you get Yaks sporting 37mm and 45mm hub-cannons! With the IL-2, right and left unharmonized cannon recoil messed with marksmanship particularly on hitting small ground targets. Not that the IL-2 didn't work, it just was not a scoupel.
Another thing is the wide variety of guns. I think the Luftwaffe electric cowl guns were the best. But given another climate like the SW Pacific or Far East, the cowl guns of the Buffalo were also electric but unreliable. For a synchronized Browning it was the fastest one, when it worked. Since it was also unreliable in Europe, it's probably the guns, not just the climate but that didn't help either. That brings up the (electric?) wing-mounted 20mm Mausers of those (about 400) Ki 61s sent to fight in tropical New Guinea. Did they do as well as the Mausers did in Europe?
Then there is the famous opinion of Galland that nose guns were sufficiant for experts but wing guns were added to the Bf 109 for the average pilot to hit something. Of course hanging them under the wings affected agility vs enemy fighters, but there was no shortage of bombers to target.
But if we're speaking generally, I would like a hub cannon and twin synchronized cannons in the wing-roots. The Ta 152 comes to mind. This means the engine may have to be built around the guns. The wings are virtually unweighted, so you can fire when they flex in high-'g's without jamming. You're not blinded by cowl-gun flash either. However, if you don't design it right with the engine from the start, you complicate life for the maintenance crew. This also presumes you have access to cannons that have a decent RoF even when synchronized.
3x20s are sufficient firepower to do most things well. B-20s (La-7) or MG151/20s, even ShVAK 20s would do nicely.
Of course with a jet, any 20mm cannon will work but why not double the battery to 6x20s for a denser pattern of fire!
Kurt Tank had my answer.
Easy -- S. Round,
The Temp is a favorite of mine too.
It was more than equal to the Fws it encountered that covered Me 262s jet bases down low.
|S. Round, 21.10.2013|
The absolute fastest most effective Second World War fighter - in service - was the Hawker Tempest why because the 24 cylinder Napier Sabre 11V engine of that time was kicking our over 3500 bhp with more on tap. The hard hitting ground attack Hawker Typhoon could take any FW190 or Ta 152 with ease and it only had the earlier 2200 bhp Napier 11.
I suppose that the Yanks would pump up the volume to make their opponents look good so it reflected upon them - and they would love to make their long suffering Allies look incompetent at every opportunity for exactly the same reason.
Anyone want a special relationship - its going cheap - free to anyone stupid enough to take it on - because it isn't worth a damn!
I like the Ta 152C-3 with the MK 103 in place of the lighter but low velocity MK 108 hub 30mm cannon.
I'd maybe lighten the two 20mm guns to higher velocity 15mm Mauser MG 151/15s to help compensate for the weight gain of the MK 103. The flatter trajectory and long range punch would be worth it. No longer would a bomber interception have to be pressed so deeply within the range of the defensive fire of the bomber box formations.
Also, when engaging fighters all 3 cannons could shoot at the same plane they are aimed at in a dogfight.
but they were indeed used for jet airfield patrol where their altitude capabilities were unused. and the MK-108 cannon was a 30mm. and 90rounds of 30mm and 350rounds of 20mm, I wouldn't want to fly in front of it. The Jumo had the air intake on the right. I'm done.
wuwu, you're talking about Ta-152H. Check out other versions.
|Ben Beekman, 18.02.2011|
William Green, in his book "Famous Fighters of the Second World War" gives us some figures on the Ta-152H:
Engine: Jumo 213; 1,750 hp with MW50 power boost.
Armament: 1 x 30 mm Mk108 and 2 x 20 mm Mg151
Wingspan: 48 ft 7 1/2 inches (original Ta-152A-O span was 34 ft 5 inches)
Weight: Normal 10,472 lb; Max. 11,508 lb.
Speed: 465 mph @ 30,000 ft; 472 mph @ 41,000 ft.
The Ta-152H-1 was the last production variation, only 10 having been built by the war's end, and the model which Kurt Tank was flying when he was jumped by the P-51D's. He's quoted as having said he easily pulled away from them.
The Do.335 being the fastest prop-plane of WW2....mmmmmm.
It's very doubtful that it even made it into combat. But even so, when I get a chance to write more, you might want to visit the P-51 and P-47 sight. The official top speed of the Dornier is 474mph as far as I know (at this time).
Francis, What?.....No, just kidding. Great information, Thanks.
To start with the Ta-152 was designed to be a high altitude interceptor and it was that almost to perfection.
It would not have been the fastest bird in the sky but at 35,000ft to 45,000ft it was nearly untouchable.
The Ta-152H could turn tighter (not nessessarily) faster than a Spitfire down low because of the great lift of the wing giving it a very low stall speed.
The generally published maximum speed of 472mph is accurate, however this was reached on a production test aircraft with both MW-50 and GM-1 boost. It is not known whether this variant ever was flown in action and no former german pilot was able to confirm that it was.
The Ta 152H-0 and H-1 that are known to have made it into combat had the following recorded performance figures:
Ta-152H-0 : Jumo 213E engine at war emergency power could reach a maximum of 446mph/35,096ft and had a working ceiling of 44,772ft. 355mph/SL. Range of 550mls. This was at a test weight of 10,430lbs. 3936fpm/SL climb and could reach 22,960ft in 8 minutes.
Ta-152H-1 : Jumo 213E with MW 50 reached 455mph/31,160ft.
Ta-152H-1 : Jumo 213E with GM-1 reached 469mph/41,000ft. and the working ceiling is listed at 48,544ft.
This information can be found in Dietmar Harmann's FOCKE-W0LF Ta-152. THE STORY OF THE LUFTWAFFE'S LATE-WAR, HIGH-ALTITUDE FIGHTER.
Not bad. a pity such a worthy fighter gets a short paragraph and not even data like top speed. But then Francis made up for that. If only I spoke French.
|Francis Maigné, 22.12.2009|
Ta 152A : Monomoteur de chasse à haute altitude, monoplace sous verrière, s'ouvrant en coulissant vers l'arrière, monoplan voi lure basse cantilever droite, monodérive,empennage horizontal classique cantilever, train d'atterrissage escamotable vers l'intérieur, rou lette de queue semi-rétractable. Construction entiérement métallique. 1 moteur de 12 cylindres en V inversés Junkers Jumo 213C de 1780 cv au décollage et 1600 cv à 5500 m, 2200 cv avec système d'injection d'eau-methanol MV 50, hélice tripale en bois à larges pales Junkers VS-111 à pas variable, de 3,50 m de diamètre, E: 14,44 m, L: 10,192 m, H: 3,37 m, Sa: 23, 30 m², Pv: 3473 Kg, Ptc: 4284 Kg, Maxi: 4840 Kg, C/a: 183,862 Kg/m², P/p: 2,4 Kg/cv, Vm: 704 Kmh à 11300 m, 681 Kmh à 6500 m, 634 Kmh à 3000 m, 580 Kmh à 0 m, Vce: 480 Kmh à 4000 m, Vasc: 2000 m en 2 mn 15, 10000 m en 7 mn 15, V d'at terrissage: 160 Kmh, Pl: 13200 m, Auto: 840 Km, 2 mt Rheinmetall MG 131 de 13 mm, synchronisées, de capot, 2 canons Mauser MG 151/20 de 20 mm dans l'emplanture de la voilure, synchronisés et tirant au travers du champ de l'hélice, 1 canon axial Mk 108 de 30 mm, tirant au travers du moyeu de l'hélice. 1er vol: 12/07/1944, 1 prototype, GH+KW, détruit le lendemain par accident.
Ta 152 V20 :Monoplace de chasse bombardement, un moteur Junkers Jumo 213CV pour le prototype, un Junkrts Jumo 213A développant 1750 Cv au décollage, 1320 Cv à 7000 m et 1740 Cv avec GM-1 pourla série Ta 152
Ta 153B : Chasseur d'escorte, 1 moteur Junkers Jumo 213E avec système d'injection GM1, Vm: 706 Kmh à 10780 m.
Ta 152B-4/R-1, B-4/R-2 : Chasseurs lourds, 1 moteur Junkers Jumo 213E, 3 canons Mk 108 de 30 mm. Prototypes.
Ta 152B-5/R-11 : Version de chasseur lourd monoplace, 1 moteur Junkers Jumo 213E-1 dévellopant 1750 Cv au décollage, 1320 Cv à 9500 m et 1740 Cv avec MW 50, hékice tripale métallique à pas variable, E : 11,00 m, L : 10,80 m, H : 3,38 m, Ptc : 5450 Kg, Vm : 529 Km/h au niveau de la mer710 Km/h à 9000 m, (avec MW 50), Pla : 11600 m, Distance franchissable sur carburant interne : 1165 Km, 2 canons Mk 103 de 30 mm dans les ailes et 1 canon Mk 108 de 30 mm (80 coups) tirant dans l’axe de l’hélice. Prototype.
Ta 152C-0 : Version de présérie du Ta 152, 1 moteur de 12 cylindres en V inversés Daimler-Benz DB 603E de 1800 cv, hélice tripale en bois Junkers VS 111 à pas variable, dont les prototypes V21/U1 (puis V21/U2), V6, V7 et V8 ,Werk Nr 110006, 110007 et 110008), furent essayés entre Novembre 1944 et Février 1945.
Ta 152C-0/R-11: Prototype V7 réalisé en version chasse tout-temps. 1 moteur de 12 cylindres en V inversés Daimler-Benz DB 603L de 1750 cv, un nouveau collimateur gyroscopique avec calculateur Askania EZ-42 (essayé sur le V8), 03/1945, CI +XM.
Ta 152C-1: Version Zerstorer = Chasse lourde de série, 1 moteur DB 603LA de 1750 cv ou DB 603EM de 1800 cv.04/1945
Ta 152 C-1/R11 : Version de Chasse-Bombardement monoplace, 1 moteur Daimler-Benz DB 603LA de 2100 Cv au décollage, 1750 Cv à 9000 m et 1900 Cv avec MW 50, hélice tripale métalique à larges pales et pas variable, envergure : 11,00 m, Longueur : 10,80 m, Haureur : 3,38 m, PTc : 5300 Kg, Vitesse maximale : 547 Km/h à 0 m, 740 Km/h à 9500 m (avec MW 50), Pla : 12200 m, Distance franchissable : 1165 Km, armement 2 canons MG 151/20 de capot (160 coups par arme), 2 MG 151/20 dans le bord d’attaque de la voilure (150 coups par arme) et 1 MK 103 (90 obus) tirant dans l’axe de l’hélice,
Ta 152C-3: Version identique, armement légérement différent: Mk 103 de 30 mm en remplacement du Mk 108 de 30 mm.
Ta 152C-11/R-11: Version de reconnaissance, caméra verticale. Abandonnée en Février 1945.
Ta 152E : Variante de reconnaissance du B-5, caméra verticale Rb-75/30, 1 moteur Junkers Jumo 213E. 11/1944, 2 protototypes : V 9 Werk Nr 11009 et V 14 Werk Nr 110014.
Ta 152H : Version Hohenjager= chasseur de haute altitude, 1 moteur Junkers Jumo 213E 213E
Ta 152H-0 : Version Hohenjager= chasseur de haute altitude. Longue série de prototypes: V18/U2 (GH + KO), détruit le 08/10/1944, au cours de ses premiers vols; V20 ,Werk Nr 0042, (GH + KQ), avec 1 Jumo 213A; V21 Werk Nr 0043, sembla ble au précédent; V29 W Nr 0054, devenu le V29/U1 avec cabine pressurisée; V1 W Nr 11001, construit en Juin 1944; V2 W Nr 11002 en
Juillet 1944; V33/U1 W Nr 0058, 12/07/1944; V30/U1 W Nr 0055 1 Jumo 213A (GH + KT), 06/08/1944; V3, V4 et V5; V 25 W Nr 110025; Fw 190 V32/U2 avec moteur Jumo 213E-1. Suivis sur la chaîne par 20 Ta 152H-0 Werk Nr 15001 à 150020, 10/1944. Généralement armés de 3 canons, certains avec 5. Le Werk Nr 15004 fut le premier de la variante R/11, avec équipements pour le vol tout-temps, comprenant également le chauffage de la verrière et un dispositif d'atterrissage aux instruments, associé au pilote automatique LWG-Siemens K-23.
Ta 152H-1 : Version d ...
|paul scott, 19.10.2009|
A f***** of an aircraft, I mean, it even LOOKS evil, predatory etc!
|leo rudnicki, 09.04.2009|
Let us settle this, maybe. The Dornier probably was faster, but there was a war and they forgot to check. the Ta 152C had wings like the Dora-9 but a DB603 engine, air intake on the left, like a 109. The Ta 152H hadthe long wings and a Jumo 213 engine with GM1 boost, called Ha-ha,or nitrous. Up high, the H model would be trouble for anything but P-51H or P-47M, but they were indeed used for jet airfield patrol where their altitude capabilities were unused. and the MK-108 cannon was a 30mm. and 90rounds of 30mm and 350rounds of 20mm, I wouldn't want to fly in front of it. The Jumo had the air intake on the right. I'm done.
I thought the fastest propeller prop plane was the DO-335 with a top speed of almost 500 miles an hour. (to get that speed it had some kind of fuel boost).
in the color drawing is version h but the drawing is c
in the color drawing is version h but the drawing is c
I said about version c not h
the ta 152 is th ta 152c inthe drawing . the normally type has long and thin wing
Do you have any comments about this aircraft ?