My Uncle, who was actually in the Army, talked his way into a ride in the backseat of an SB2C-4 that was going on a practice bombing mission shortly after WWII at ake Otay in San Diego. The engine quit and the pilot ditched the plane in Lake Otay. They swam to shore and hitch-hiked back the base. In 2010 fishermen located the aircraft on their depth finder and the plane was raised and now resides at Pensacola awaiting restoration as a static display.
Bill Dalton, e-mail, 16.02.2018 04:10
My father was a rare gunner on the Helldiver in the fall of 1944. USS Princeton CVL-23. Battle of Leyte & Formosa. After the Princeton was sunk he was transferred to a land based B-24 top turret gunner. Knocked out of sky by Kamikaze, sole survivor. He is still alive and slowly telling me his story.
John mStone, e-mail, 12.11.2017 16:35
My dad flew with VB 84. LtCmdr M.M. Stone. Was XO and NAS Quonset Pt. Sadly while flying backseat at a Navy Day air show in Vermont Oct 1945, they crashed into hills . Pilot and my dad died. Iguess all shipmates have passed by npw.
PANOS, e-mail, 15.11.2016 11:14
remarkable
Jon Lord, e-mail, 22.05.2015 05:33
Glad I found the comments, especially by Aircrewman Rollins. I had wondered how effective those twin machine guns were as they were mounted so low. 2C "Second Class" would refer to the Navy rank of Petty Officer Second Class. Many of the rear gunners were 3rd class or 2nd class PO's.
Steve Andreason, e-mail, 11.05.2015 21:02
My father LCDR Ray Andreason flew the SB2C4E in combat with VB-12 on the USS Randloph CV-15. He received multiple air medals and 3 campaign stars (invasions of Iwo Jima, Okinawa, and carrier strikes on Japan mainland). He trained in the SBD and never said a bad thing about the Helldiver. "How can I complain about a plane that took me into harms way and returned me safe and sound everytime."
LYNN TIMMERMAN, e-mail, 15.03.2015 23:50
I was an Air Corps Engineering Officer attached to Wright Field's Materiel Command, and assigned to Buffalo NY to be the OIC of the Air Corps modification center located at the Buffalo airport. One of our projects was to strengthen the tail section of the SB2C because on carrier landings the tail hook, when snatched, would remove the tail assembly from the rest if the aircraft. We called this plane-- the SB2C---"SOB with 2 cockpits".
Roberta, e-mail, 30.01.2015 03:07
My dad was a gunner in ww 2. Many of his logs and some personal effects are now on display on the U.S. Inteipid . Now docked in New York. My dads nick name was gunner. He was very proud of his Navy days and so is his family. Go vets .
Johnny, e-mail, 19.02.2013 07:31
Hello I make leather flying unit patches, USAAF/USN/USMC,ww2 era specialty, contact me for photos/info Much thanks to all veterans who fought in WW2, it is Very much appreciated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Johnny WeBeEmblems=aol.com
Dougan, e-mail, 24.11.2012 18:08
It was not as bad as it was said to be. I did however only fly the later models the SB2C-4 And SB2C-5. The models before the 4 and 5 I was told were dangerous and unstable to fly. But the later models were used even on the Casablanca class carriers which had very short flight decks. The truman committee is what gave curtiss a bad name. How they could bash a good plane? plus bashing the legendary P-40 is a corrupt committe if you ask me. Anyone can look up the P-40s service record and the SB2C's Service record. and there is no way you can say they were failures or faulty designs.
Ralph Alshouse, e-mail, 24.11.2011 19:12
I flew SB2C,s. One starting at 15000feet I pulled a Split- S. I went straight down. The stick froze at about 430 knots. I knew bail-out would wrap my body around the tail. The dive flaps would rip-off. There was one thing left to try, the trim tabs, I was now past 500 knots. I rolled the trim tabs way back and pulled steady on the stick. My late good pilot friend Bud Penniman had broken the control cable several months earlier in his SB2C. Thank God it responded. It leveled out a few 100 feet above the ground. Do not do split-s in a SB2C.
Joe E. Hudson, e-mail, 15.11.2011 01:02
I was gunner in this airplane on the first carrier plane raid on Tokyo. Flew subsequent strikes on Chichi Jima, Iwo, Okinawa, Kyushu, and other Japanese territory. I never heard my pilot make a critical remark about the Helldiver. An airplane that will get you safely back on carrier CV15 after all this will only get praise from me.
paidui, 18.06.2011 14:01
Also, in the event of a botched landing, a Grumman airplane would usually hold together better, giving the crews had a better chance of surviving, while pranged Helldivers often crumpled up. Small wonder he preferred to fly into combat in the Avenger!
HUGH GRIGSBY, e-mail, 15.05.2011 00:56
I FLEW THE BEAST FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS IN WWII, ONE NINE MONTH DEPLOYMENT, SEVERAL SHORTER ONES. THE BEAST WAS GOOD TO ME PERSONALLY, DID LOSE SOME GOOD FRIENDS. GOOD FEATURE, ONCE ON THE TARGET IN A DIVE YOU STAYED ON THE TARGET, ALSO IT WOULD TAKE 12 Gs WITHOUT BENDING OR LOSING A WING. FLEW ADs FOR SEVERAL YEARS, 1s THROUGH 6s I BELIEVE, BETTER PLANE, MORE WEAPONS. I HAD A LITTLE TIME IN SBDs, JUST ONE 500 LB BOMB, BUT YOU COULD DIVE LOWER AND HIT BETTER. BEAST WAS A GOOD BOMBER, AD THE BEST. DID ENJOY HAVING A CREWMAN IN THE SBDs AND SB2Cs.
Klaatu, e-mail, 24.04.2011 03:41
My father was a US Navy combat cameraman during World War II and flew combat missions in SB2Cs from USS Yorktown, USS Hornet and USS Belleau Wood. He also flew combat missions in TBFs, PBMs, PBYs, PB2Ys and even flew six missions in AAF B-29s out of Saipan.
The SB2C was, without question, his LEAST favorite airplane. After seeing the numerous take-off and landing accidents that occurred on the Yorktown, he dreaded to fly in them. He said that, on take-off, TBFs and Hellcats would make a short run and then lift gracefully into the air. However, in contrast, the SB2Cs would get to the end of the flight deck and simply DROP OFF; then, a few seconds later, you might see them struggling for altitude - maybe! Also, in the event of a botched landing, a Grumman airplane would usually hold together better, giving the crews had a better chance of surviving, while pranged Helldivers often crumpled up. Small wonder he preferred to fly into combat in the Avenger!
Ben Beekman, e-mail, 19.03.2011 02:47
I'm just finishing a great book by Lt. Harold Buell titled "Dauntless Helldivers". Buell flew both the SBD and the SB2C during WW2 from most of our carriers available at that time in the Pacific: Enterprise, Yorktown, Hornet etc. as well as serving some time with the Cactus air force. Any of you former carrier fliers out there would appreciate this book. It's filled with names of people you may remember. You probably can buy a copy via the internet or get it at (or through) your library.
Edwin Baumeister, e-mail, 26.02.2011 00:14
I flew the Beast many hours on and off of carriers. It was a great airplane. Granted, it was unstable. You had to fly it all the time. So what. What else were we there for? I get tired of all this BS about a great airplane. The SBD could not compare to it.
C. Reed Rollins, e-mail, 18.02.2011 04:10
In the posting by Ron Lapp, 22.06.2010, he asked the question as to what happened to the shell casings when firing the twin 30 caliber guns in the rear cockpit. Well, it caused quit a job to clean up after landing because what casings didn't fly out of the plane by the gun's recoil, would wind up on the deck. We spent lots of time cleaning the guns after any firing hops and I remember the trouble removing the casings. But we had the same problem after gunnery practice in the rear seat of the SBD Dauntless in our opertional training. That was a great plane.
Winston E. Jewson, e-mail, 02.11.2010 23:03
We in US Marine Corps VMSB-132 reforming at MCAS El Toro (Santa Ana, Califonia)in early 1944(from Guadalcanal deployment in WWII)turned in our SBD-5s for the SB2C-1As on 7 July 1944. (As Sqdn Exec) my log book shows I flew the assigned SB2C-1As exclusively until my deployment to WESTPAC in November 1944. It was not a delightful experience. I recall Lindbergh visiting us one day in summer 1944 and flight demonstated what he could do with the plane. It gave us more confidence about this ugly beast plane after flying the trusty and capable SBD-5s for so long.
In WESTPAC Marshall Is. with VMSB-331, as CO, we picked up our first SB2C-4E (BuNo.20639)on 27 February at Roi and operated the squadron of 31 of these SB2C-4E from Majuro daily bomb strikes against Mille, Maloelap, Wotje, etc. We lost Capt Modesset(sp)USMC at Maloelap. Leading the second section in the bombing dive he went straight-in.
Immediately after this flight I sent a dispatch to CNO & BuAer resulting in the grounding world-wide of all SB2C aircraft pending investigation. About 10 (?) days later CNO directed ALL bolts on SB2C-4E acft be given up-graded torgue specs. This correction allowed us to resume satisfactory flight ops.
In the following month after the A-bombs and Japanese surrender, I was privileged to be in the U.S. Navy surrender party at Maloelap. There on the beach I saw the complete horizontal stabilizer of an SB2C-4E with no apparent damage. Leading this tragic flight I reconstructed in my mind what it must have been for MODESSET to be in a near-vertical bombing and having no control of his aircraft with a horizonal stabilizer being torn away from aircraft, leaving no control for pull-up, but straight-in! I surmise the stabilizer came off of the aircraft before the crash and wafting-down to to waves and subsequently broaching onto the beach. The Japanese had not evidently not touched it. Appearance-wise it was like ordering from Navy Supply. one NEW SB2C-4E horizontal stabilizer. Another chilling experience for me. /s/ Winston E. Jewson, Col. USMC (Ret). Age 94, good health, Orange County, CA 2 Nov. 2010. WWII, Korea, et al.
ed clexton, e-mail, 28.10.2010 16:40
My Dad, LCdr E. W. Clexton, USN, an aero grad from MIT in 1931, and one of the first Navy Aeronautical Engineering Duty Officers (AEDOs) was on the design team in BuAer for this plane (before WWII the Navy designed the planes and the companies built them; today companies design and build them). He had also been on the design team for the Curtis biwing SBC-4 Helldiver.
Much has been said (below) about the "Beast" and from personal conversations with pilots who flew her, much is true about her poor handling qualities, but ..... many have also told me that the longer range and greater payload (than the SBDs) outweighed the difficulties - and - she held together in combat better so many returned to the ship in spite of being shot up pretty bad.
I have a chromed model he was given.
E. W. Clexton Jr VAdm USN (Ret) 200 missions Vietnam to include the first strikes against NVN torpedo boat bases in the Tonkin Gulf in Aug '64 Test Pilot School Class 42 Test pilot for F4B/J/K*/M** Phantom IIs and F4 Spin Project * Royal Navy (RN) ** Royal Air Force (RAF) Commanding Officer, VF-102 Diamondbacks, USS El Paso, LKA-17, USS Dwight D. Eisenhower, CVN-69 COMCARGRU 3, NAS Alameda w/ USS Enterprise, CVN-65, USS Nimitz, CVN-68, USS Carl Vinson, CVN-70 and associated Air Wings 9, 8 and 15 assigned. Retired 1993 as Deputy Commander in Chief, US Naval and Marine Forces Europe, in charge of all US ships, aircraft and bases from northern Norway to the Suez Canal, including the 6th Fleet in the Mediterranian.
Fred Wise, e-mail, 16.10.2010 21:35
My Dad worked at Curtiss in Columbus Oh from early in 1942 thru the end (for him '46).
He couldnt enlist because of a bad foot. So he stood on that foot for 10 and sometimes 12 hours a day, six and yes sometimes seven days a week building HellDivers for you guys in the South Pacific fleets.
THANKS TO YOU ALL FOR GIVING THE JAPS 'WHATFOR' OUT THERE!!
PS I was 10 on the day they signed the surrender on the deck of the 'Mo' in Toykyo Bay..
Did I say: THANKS TO YOU ALL FOR GIVING THE NIPS 'WHATFOR' OUT THERE! Bears repeating anyway. Thanks guys and Semper Fi!!!
Grady Stoodt, e-mail, 25.09.2010 14:42
The Helldiver must be a huge plane if it carries internal bomb bay doors.
John Young, e-mail, 31.08.2010 23:31
Many of you probably are aware that the National Museum of Naval Aviation at Pensacola has received an SB2C this past week. I am a volunteer who works on the cockpit restorations and we are now working on an F6F-3. Eventually we will begin on the SB2C and I have looked at the radio and radar equipment on this aircraft. Does anyone know what was normally installed? A T-47/ART-13 liaison transmitter is installed in the front of the rear cockpit but it is difficult to identify the other units due to all of the mud and clams. Any information will be appreciated.
Bob Phillips, e-mail, 26.08.2010 19:10
my squadron VB1 after training in SBD's were assigned SB2C's several months before boarding the USS Yorktown originally the rear gun was a single 50 caliber machine gun hydrawlic opperated then were changed back to the freewheeling twin 30's we had rumers the planes tail would rip off in a dive but this never happened in our squadron flying with my pilot Chuck Standard we had no problems with the aircraft. after returning from overseas I became an aircrew instructor at Cecil Field till the end of the war fly in the beast every day dive bombing, gunnery section tactics the only problem Chuck Standard had the plane could not do a slow roll flying straight up we always went in a spin
Jim Mitchell, e-mail, 24.08.2010 03:03
I flew about 30 Combat Missions in the "Beast" from the USS Yorktown and the USS Hancock.
My pilot, Lieutenant Woodson, and I dropped a bomb on a Jap carrier in the "Mission Beyond Darkness" raid that Lieutenant Standard talked about in his e-mail. One good thing I can say about the "Beast"is: Due to it's large wing span, it floated long enough on the water landing we had to make on returning from that Mission, for me to get into our Life Raft and paddle over to my pilot in his Mae West and pull him into the raft. The "Beast" didn't hold up well though when we blew a tire on landing and went into the Island Structure and sheared everything off the right side of the plane.
Ron Lapp, e-mail, 05.07.2010 08:29
Gerald,
Sounds like a very interesting book. Is it available anywhere?
Gerald Crisman, e-mail, 04.07.2010 20:59
I wrote a book called: 'TWO AND A HALF MISSIONS,MAX'. It tell of flying the SB2C in the Atlantic. We blew two Germen tankers out of the water and we were on,(after) but not a part of the Guadalcanal CVE 60 when it captured the U505 German Submarine. The book tells of some of my adventures while I flew the SB2C. Thanks to that plane, I am now (2010) 84 years af age.
Ron Lapp, e-mail, 22.06.2010 01:30
Bit of a typo in my previous post. I meant to say "expended cases and links" in the first sentance of the second paragraph.
Ron
Ron Lapp, e-mail, 22.06.2010 01:09
The SB2C is a mean looking airplane. It seems like once they got the bugs worked out, it did fairly well.
Regarding the .30 cal tail guns, does anyone know if the expended cases and likes were collected in a bag under the guns, or did the cases and links just fall to the floor and get collected later (or get blown out in the slipstream)?
Maybe C.Reed Rollins can provide a definitive answer.
Thanks.
Ron
Sturm, 04.06.2010 05:02
Accident rates were so high in this bomber that the crews sung a special little song about it: "My body lies under the ocean," "My body lies under the sea," "My body lies under the ocean," "Wrapped up in an SB2C!"
Kirk, e-mail, 18.05.2010 05:40
My father, Lt. (jg) David (Tex) Weaver, JR. flew "The Beast" from workups in Jan, 1943 through the end of the war. I have his ribbons, with four major battle stars and picture of his beast pushing over into an 89 degree practice dive.
Mt brother and I are trying to find out more about our Dad's operations during training and in the Pacific. As most veterans of that era, he never said much but we have some old pictures from both Cecil Field and Bouganville.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Kirk Weaver ppgacolo@aol.com
Chuck Standard, e-mail, 05.01.2010 23:58
I flew an SB2C in the Pacific with Air Group 1 off the USS Yorktown and I had little trouble with the Beast. It wasn't as good in a dive as the SBD, but I believe I got a hit on a heavy Cruiser during the "Mission beyond Darkness" on June 20th 1944. My gunner, Bob Phillips, and I are still in touch.
C. Reed Rollins, e-mail, 03.01.2010 19:09
My comments in the frame below about flying as an aircrewman/gunner in the rear cockpit of the plane, left out some important points. The gunner had to operate twin 30 caliber machine guns that could be moved by hand on a circular swivel. They were stored under the canopy behind the rear cockpit until ready for use. The section of the canopy would be collapsed allowing an area to move the guns from side to side. The gunner was able to shoot holes in the tail assembly if not careful. There were several times that happened to some of our gunners. Also, with the carrier's straight deck the first few planes to take off loaded with bombs risked loss of lift leaving the deck and could mush into the seas as the pilot lowered the right wing to clear the bow of the carrier. One of our pilots and crewman lost two planes due to loss of lift on takeoff. Few bombers were catapulted off the deck. That's all.
C. Reed Rollins, e-mail, 03.01.2010 18:43
In 1944, I was an 18 year old aircrewman (radio/gunner) flying in the rear seat of the SB2C with two different bombing squadrons, VB87 (USS Randolph)and VB92 (USS Lexington) All of us referrred to the plane as "The Beast". VB 92 insignia had the name "Battling Beasts". I personally never experienced a problem aircraft but we lost a number of pilots and gunners in training accidents. It was a difficult plane for the pilots to handle for carrier landings. The crewman could not see the carrier in the final approach so we did a lot of praying until that hook caught the wire. The last plane I flew in was the one at the Naval Aviation Museum NAS Pensacola, off the Lex as we approached Tokyo Bay shortly after the end of the war. It is now back at the Smithsonian Air and Space facility at Dulles Airport. We managed to have both squadron reunions in Pensacola in 2001 while there were enough members still alive to enjoy the get together. We liked the SBD better than the SB2C Helldiver but the heavier payload was important. Our ranks are thining. Only one pilot among several with whom I flew are still alive as of Jan. 2010.
Peter Fergus-Moore, e-mail, 09.08.2009 17:50
Canadian Car and Foundry (Cancar)built the Helldiver here in Fort William (Thunder Bay) Ontario, after having built Hawker Hurricanes for the RAF. Not only was the Helldiver a poor, badly designed aircraft, but Cancar's staff were driven crazy by the constant stream of requests for changes and modifications due to the US armed forces' standardization program referred to above. Apparently, the SB-2 was referred to as "Son of a Bitch, Second Class", by US aircrew.
leo rudnicki, e-mail, 08.04.2009 04:33
I believe the most significant contribution of the Beast was the advancement of the multi-role combat aircraft. The use of Avengers as glide bombers and the shackles added to F6F5 fighters and Corsairs meant that fewer SB2C's were carried onboard and when no one was looking, you could roll them off the side without anyone missing them. Everyone liked the SBD, no one liked the Beast.
Cortland E. Mehl, e-mail, 18.06.2008 08:50
My uncle Ens Edmund F. Kulka is lost at sea in the Caribean Sea in a SB2C, a plane nicknamed by his fellow pilots as "The Beast" My uncle was with VB76 Squadron during the shakedown cruise of the USS Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1946. This was a Coral Sea class carrier that was to be named the Coral Sea but was named the FDR to honor the late president after his death. I understand the SB2C had some significant problems with the tail assemblies and vertical stabilizers and there were problems with the Canadian manufactured aircraft. After the war, many of the SB2C's were used by the greek Air Force and the French in Indo China. I believe several were also sold or given to Latin American countries. There is one on static display at the Pensacola NAS aviation museum.
Charles Bush, e-mail, 04.06.2008 01:39
My Father flew the SB2-C in the Pacific. He was shot out of the sky twice over Atsugi Bay Japan and was rescued both times,out at sea; once by a destroyer and once by a submarine. He also lost some of his best friends in that airplane. I've heard they had some problems but dad never got specific.
His name was William W. Bush Jr. 1940 Annapolis.
Mick Dunne, e-mail, 29.12.2007 21:27
What a horrible heap of old rubbish this thing was! I salute the poor bastards that had to fly them...and their achievements!
