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arachni_name, e-mail, 30.12.2020 06:46
1
Ron, 16.10.2017 22:53
The 93 P-51A Mustangs with 4X20mm Mk II Hispano cannons did not have the problem with reliability like the US M2 Hispano. If any of these had Merlin instead of Allison engines or if some Merlin P-51s had M2 cannons, is less clear. Perhaps photos of a Merlin Mustang with 20mm cannons was not a production model.
The idea of RAF P-51As with reliable RAF cannons makes one think the weight was too much for a dogfighter version. I think the extra power of the Merlin should have allowed for a good contender even with 2 Hispano and 2 Browning like the later Spits had. They needed more than 4 fifties in the RAF P-51 Mk II. This was an opportunity to have a US fighter with a reliable cannon. 93 should have been much more.
William T. Schwander, e-mail, 20.03.2017 20:52
Your "A" model is designated as an "D" model.
Harvey, e-mail, 23.04.2016 11:26
The picture of the plane at the top of this article is not a P-51D, which had a bubble canopy. The C and earlier versions had the type of canopy illustrated.
Klaatu83, e-mail, 27.07.2015 03:05
The P-51As in the photo at the top, painted with the distinctive diagonal stripes, belonged to a unit known as the Air Commandos, which operated in Burma during 1944 in support of General Orde Wingate's famous Chindits.
Fred Benenati, e-mail, 25.01.2015 14:38
Just to set the record straight, the P-51D, with a Packard built Rolls Royce Merlin engine, developed 1,490 horse power, as opposed to the 1,200 horse power stated by a Mr. D'Amario. Reference: Robert Gruenhagen's book about P-51 Mustangs. Yes, it was a wonderful aircraft.
Ron, e-mail, 20.10.2014 22:10
I was disappointed to learn of the stress fractures limiting turns to 2.5g for the P-51H. Engine trouble was another serious problem. Thus, the weight trimmed Mustang was a fighter between wars while the sturdier, trusted P-51D saw action again in Korea.
Ron, e-mail, 07.08.2014 01:16
I like the way the Fiat G55 Centauro has a similar wing planform. It was a world-beater like the P-51 but for it's production quantity. I was wondering if the design similarities were not a coincidence(general wing shape, ventral air-scoop, razorback); even both prototypes temporarily sported under-nose 12.7mm MGs! But no, just parallel coincidence of design. It had me wondering though, because of the influence of a former Messerschmitt employee on the P-51 design and the fact that the Centauro outclassed the Messerschmitt Bf 109 and impressed the Germans. Alas, the P-51 prototype was too early (Oct 1940) and the Fiat G55 followed it. And visa-versa, I'm sure the G55 design wasn't influenced by the Mustang either.
All 3 shot eachother down. The Bf 109G usually shot at the G55 perhaps mistaking it for a P-51 which it resembled except from the side view (also, after Rome switched sides, many Italians flew against the Luftwaffe in the Co-belligerant Italian air force for the Allies).
All the same, the performance of the P-51 and the G55 were both top-notch, I like to think of the Fiat Centauro as an Itlian Mustang. They both ruled high altitude. Both out-turned the Bf 109 Gustav (especially at speed) and out-ranged it. Both could out-dive it too, but not out-climb it. Though the G55 was chosen to be the standard Italian fighter mid-war, it was numbered only in the hundreds (barely), not thousands like the P-51 or prolific Messerscmitt.
Tom Everhart, e-mail, 31.05.2014 19:54
Hey Guys! You need to "Learn More" about the P-40 and the P-51. They did put a RR Merlin on the "F" model P-40 and then went back to the Allison V1710. They also made a "Proto Type P-40 Q" that had the Mustang style "Bubble Canopy" and a "Laminar Flow Wing". That Plane became an "Air Racer" and Crashed during the Cleveland Air Racers right after the War.
Bob Kusterer, e-mail, 18.02.2014 02:58
I used to fly the P-51D "Boomer" when it was owned by Gary Koenig. I had flown an AT-6 and a P-40 prior so it was not completely foreign to me. WOW ! ! what a performer compared to the P-40 ! ! I really liked the airplane; very honest and easy to fly. My only "surprise" was when I made my first go-around with full flaps. That last notch of flaps has a tremendous amount of drag. When I came up to climb power, the plane hardly accelerated; I thought something was wrong with the engine because I had experienced really impressive acceleration on takeoff. Also, it took a whole big bunch of right rudder whereas surprisingly little was required for takeoff. When I raised the flaps, it was like I lit the afterburner. After that "learning experience" I felt right at home in the bird. One of the nicest planes I've ever flown. Thanks, Gary, for letting me fly your beautiful plane.
Peter Dewsnap, e-mail, 20.12.2013 19:19
An excellent aircraft built to British specifications and fitted with a Rolls Royce Merlin engine. We saw one at the Latrobe Air Show in Pennsylvania some years ago. Most impressive.
RM Hardoko Mardiko, e-mail, 15.09.2013 14:24
to John company4u=yahoo.com Sorry., just make a comment again about P-51 although already answered by you more than one year ago .... THANK A LOT ... my new question is : Are there these old Mustang still flying in USA now days ( perhaps in Air show or exibition) ??? (sorry rather childish hehehe question)
Alfred J. D'Amario, e-mail, 19.08.2013 04:56
I was privileged to fly the P-51D for 70 hours while in advanced pilot training at Craig AFB, Alabama in 1951 (class 51H) As everyone who has flown it says, it was a wonderful airplane. You had to be sure to keep the nose down on the turn to final, or it would kill you. But, other than that, it was fantastic. Just before graduation, we took a weekend cross-country to Miami with a stop at the SAC base in Savannah, Georgia. Since they were a bomber base, they were used to one minute intervals between takeoffs. When we were ready to go, we were cleared at one minute intervals. But, I was number four, and before the tower could clear me, some idiot transport pilot started filing a complete flight plan over the tower frequency. by the time the tower could break in and give me the OK to go, my flight had joined up and was almost abeam of me going the other way. I firewalled the throttle and as soon as I was airborne I sucked up the gear and started a left turn. I passed by the control tower at about window level and not more than 50 feet away. I joined up with my flight and we got out of there before they could call me back to give me a hard time. We continued on toward Miami where my instructor proceeded to land at the wrong airport, gear up. In route, I had assumed the #3 position, flight lead. So, I had the flight join up on me and we proceeded to the Miami International Airport and a great weekend on the beach. The P-51 is everything everyone says about it. When you firewall the throttle, you know you have 1200 horses in your left hand. I had 70 hours of some of the most exciting and satisfying flying anyone could ever have. And I loved it.
Keith Lindsay, e-mail, 06.03.2013 11:53
I found the information; the mustang had ten degrees of dihedral.
MIke, e-mail, 05.03.2013 18:44
Yes that IS a P-51-d... not all had the clear canopy.. some even had the "malcom" hoods..
Keith Lindsay, e-mail, 04.03.2013 18:51
anyone know what the wing dihedral was? 5 degrees?
thanks
ron, e-mail, 12.02.2013 04:28
My Dad trained in P-51s in Florida. He said the skin started coming off so they sut down the program until the problem was fixed. The AAC sent him and others to fly B-17s while the design problem was getting fixed. Does anyone have information about this? I see one reference to teeting problems.
Steve, e-mail, 09.10.2012 01:46
It is possible to do a direct comparison between the P-40 and P-51 airframes - specifically, between the P-40N and the P-51A, which both used the same engine, the V-1710-81. From 5000' to 15000', the P-51A had a speed superiority of from 37 to 42 mph - not trivial. The explanation is easy to find. The P-51's design was fully five years later than the original P-40 design as the Hawk 75/P-36 (1935 vs. 1940). In that time came the reduced-drag laminar flow airfoil and radiator duct.
Byron Bailey, e-mail, 23.07.2012 11:56
Love the Bearcat, Mustang, Sea Fury in that order. When I was Mirage RAAF pilot our Tech Officer 77 Sqn had flown P51 in Korea. He said in practice combat they lost big time to the RAN Sea Furies and even the RNZAF Corsairs as lost energy in sustained turning fight compared to the bigger more powerful aircraft with a different airfoil wing section.
John, e-mail, 21.02.2012 18:53
Glad to see I have some support here. I have decided to build a working v12 model engine and airframe. I don't know if I will finish it or even get it started as it is just a dream right now. Has anyone out there built a model like thuis or know of one? Thanks John
Terrence I. Murphy, e-mail, 19.02.2012 18:42
Some of the last changes made to the aircraft, including the new Rolls Royce Merlin V-1650-9 engine, either decreased the weight, or increased the speed, making it the fastest production P-51ever with a clocking of 487 mph at 25,000 feet. The last P-15H-10NA rolled out of the Inglewood factory in November of 1945. A further update, the XP-51, was shipped to the United Kingdom for testing in February 1945. This plane was also named Mustang V, and bore the RAF serial number FR410. It is widely reported to have achieved a speed of 495 mph during tests at the A&AEE at Boscombe Down in February 1945
Terrence I. Murphy, e-mail, 19.02.2012 18:41
Some of the last changes made to the aircraft, including the new Rolls Royce Merlin V-1650-9 engine, either decreased the weight, or increased the speed, making it the fastest production P-51ever with a clocking of 487 mph at 25,000 feet. The last P-15H-10NA rolled out of the Inglewood factory in November of 1945. A further update, the XP-51, was shipped to the United Kingdom for testing in February 1945. This plane was also named Mustang V, and bore the RAF serial number FR410. It is widely reported to have achieved a speed of 495 mph during tests at the A&AEE at Boscombe Down in February 1945
Klaatu83, e-mail, 12.02.2012 15:44
The Mustang was originally designed to satisfy a British request that NA build P-40s under license for the RAF. NA persuaded the British that they could build a better fighter than the P-40, and they came up with the Mustang. Because of the Allison engine it was originally employed as a specialized low-altitude fighter for low-level fighter sweeps, ground attack and photo-reconnaissance sorties. It was considered to be the best low-level fighter available at that time.
The substitution of the Rolls-Royce Merlin, with two-speed supercharger, for the Allison engine made all the difference. With it the Mustang could operate as effectively at high altitudes as it could at low level.
Originally, the USAAF was not interested in the Mustang, which was considered to be strictly an RAF project. The AAF wanted more P-40s and P-47s. However, Hap Arnold, who was no fool, saw a demonstration of the Mustang, and insisted upon ordering it for the AAF as the P-51.
Incidentally, Curtiss did develop a version of the P-40 fitted with the Merlin engine, the P-40F. I believe they built about 800 P-40Fs, and they were used extensively over North Africa and the Med. They did have better high-altitude performance than the Allison-engine P-40s, but not so good as the Mustang.
John, e-mail, 01.02.2012 21:26
Red Baron, you obviously have a love for the P-40, I can relate since I have a love for several as well. One of my favorites is the Vought F-4U Corsair. This was a great sircraft but it had many short-cummings. When studying the effectiveness of any airframe it is important to consider the design mission of the designers. This is why the P-40 could never be compared to any other aircraft. You are right, it isn't always about speed or maneuverability. The P-40 more than satisfied it's original mission design making it a very successful airframe. The P-51 was designed for a completely different mission. It is true the Merlin engine completed the design of the P-51 but it is also true the P-51 had a design mission the P-40 designers had never considered. The P-40 excelled for ground attack operations but was not as effective at higher altitudes because it was not designed to operate there. The reason the P-40 had incredible climb and turn performance was because when youi fly close to the ground yuou need to be able to avoid obstacles and / or ground fire. The P-51 was designed as a fast escort that had the range to go into Germany and back. Once in service it's pilots found the P-51 to provide excellant low altitude performance and handling as well. Reno racers have preferred the P-51 for a reason, it is strong, aero-dynamic and extremely maneuverable throughout it's operating envelope. I suggest as I have in the begining that you do more research and not depend on your love for the P-40 as much. You will find it is more fun to realistically compare aircraft on a scientific level. Whatever you do keep in mind I love the magnificent P-40 as much as you do. John
Red Baron, e-mail, 23.01.2012 08:34
There is more too it than just speed, which is what aerodynamics gives them.
That huge cowling on the p-40 was very aerodynamic, lol. But who needs aerodynamics when you have power! Lol
Well the P-40 would of been a heck of a lot better fighter if it did have the engine. You can't deny that.
John, e-mail, 20.01.2012 16:38
you seem to be locked into the idea the P40's performance can be compared to the P51. You have a right to that belief but I would rather be more scientific about it. American and British aircraft were fine machines but in fact were obsolete when the war began. Aero-dynamically the P40, Spitfire, Aircobra etc. simply could not compete with the P51.
Red Baron, e-mail, 19.01.2012 23:54
John.
I am not talking about the P-40 taking over the Mustangs role of escorting the B-17's.
But given the better engine it could of performed better in a fight than a mustang.
The P-40 would of also made more of a difference in the pacific campaign had it had a two-staged supercharger.
John, e-mail, 16.01.2012 16:38
There were amazing fighters both during and after the war but they all had the same problem, range. The P38 was the only other WW2 fighter that had the speed and the range to get into Germany and back. In any event, your claim the P51 sucks has no merit. The P40 as I said was a great airplane but it's aero-dynamic profile caused too much drag for it to provide the range it would have needed to compete. The Rolls-Royce Merline V-12 would have definitely made it a better aircraft but remember the Spitfire (another great fighter ) had the Rolls angine and it could not compete with the P51.
Red Baron, e-mail, 15.01.2012 23:49
What I mean too say is this. What were the P-40's setbacks?
Performance at high altitudes. What if the P-40 could perform as well as it did at low altitudes but in high altitudes. Sure, the P-51 had new features that the P-40 lacked.
But there were other great fighters that didn't have "laminar flow wings" etc.
Why not try a twin-stage supercharged Rolls-Royce engine in a P-40, true they had a shortage. But if they had enough for the production of lancasters, spitfires and mustangs couldn't they spare a few for trail?
John, e-mail, 13.01.2012 05:54
Frank Russel, you sound like you have piloted a P51, did you? John
Frank Russell, e-mail, 12.01.2012 10:11
The Mustang P-51D had it all!! Loved it!!
Hamma1340, e-mail, 07.01.2012 13:49
PS,Brillant info and site...thank you
Hamma1340, e-mail, 07.01.2012 13:36
Zacvolmer !!! ...speed and range...what else wins in a air war... but you have only have to read as i have from those who know...AND LEARN before you put your size 9 boot in your size 10 mouth
John, e-mail, 05.01.2012 22:48
RM Mardiko, the crash at the Reno air races was caused when a piece of the aircraft's tail surfaces separated fromt he aircraft causing a loss of control. It should be noted that aircraft operated as Reno racers have been modified through the years to improve their performance. Unfortunately sometimes a modification or even a repair may result in a structural failure. The extreme g - loads an airframe experiences during an air race would severely challenge any aircraft design. Now add to that an airframe that is 60 or more years old. Unfortunate accident, fantastic aircraft. Sincerely John
John, e-mail, 05.01.2012 22:38
It is sad that someone would make such a statement without checking his facts. The aerodynamic design of the wings and fuselage made the P51 extremely fast and agile, the original Packard engine could not deliver the required performance at higher altitudes. The excellant Rolls Royce engine did indeed make the aircraft a winner. However, the Rolls engine would have done nothing to make the P40 Warhawk a contender because the P40 did not have the laminar flow wing provided to the P51. Both were great aircraft but could not be compared. I love both of them and have built several flying models of both aircraft. Sincerely John
Red Baron, e-mail, 05.01.2012 03:42
P-51 mustangs suck, all they had going for them was speed and range. The only reason they even had that was because they were given a better engine by the british.
If the P-40 was given that same engine it would've made a much better fighter than the P-51.
RM Hardoko Mardiko, e-mail, 29.10.2011 13:20
I still confused regarding of the last air show accident around 3 or 4 weeks ago in parts of USA that a P-51 crashed and killed its pilot. Is there anybody that can inform me or us , what was wrong with those P-51. I know precisely that for the "Battle over London / Britain" , The Supermarine Spitfire or Hurricane were mostly famous than The P-51's since at that time USA were not yet entered the Second WW, but after The American joint WW-II, P-51 Mustang were dominated nearly around the world ( in Pacific against Japan and also during the Korean War ). So that once again, would some body tell me / us, what is the matter regarding the Accident that happened around a month ago.. Thank you.
robellis, e-mail, 26.10.2011 08:35
The Australian built version equipped the 1st non-USAF Squadron to serve in the Korean War - 77 Sqdn RAAF, and the pilots claimed at least 2 or 3 MiGs. They later re-equipped with Australian-buil;t Avon 'Sabres'
BJ Ramsey, e-mail, 24.10.2011 20:30
The P-51 and it,s subsequent legend transcends all ages in it,s popularity.I have a Loehle P5151D look alike,and when I pull it out of the hangar.traffic stops on the airport perimeter road to watch.This is only matched by one other a/c thst being Air Force one
RM Hardoko Mardiko, e-mail, 31.07.2011 17:33
TNI-AU once AURI (Indonesian Air Force) had so many famous pilots during 1950 - 1960, among them were Leo Watimena, Rusmin Nurjadin, Nayarana Susila, Ignatius Dewanto, Gunadi, and many others. Except The Late Nayarana Susila, the others were acting as the first Indonesians Jet Pilot on DH-110 Vampire and Mig's fighters such as MIG 15, 17 and 21, but they prefered to handle P-51s during the rebellion of PRRI and Permesta which occurred on 1958. Its were manuverable, easy handdled and powerful with its 0.50 inch calibre of 6 machine guns and also rockets.
airnut, 26.07.2011 21:07
I subscribed to several WWII aircraft magazines back in the 70's-80's. They eventually started repeating stories and dropped my subscriptions. One magazine had a great detailed story on the P-51. one of the details I remember, the Brits needed planes drastically and our government asked "Dutch" Kindleberger at North American to build P-40's. Dutch considered that an insult and promised something better and in 9 months he delivered. However, the P-51 had some horsepower limitations. Kindleberger went to GM to ask for a more powerful Allison and the mass production master basically said, this is the engine we offer, buy it. The next step has several stories. Story #1. There was a shortage of Allison engines in England, and sharing an airfield with Spitfires, some crew chiefs got together and installed a Merlin in the P-51B. I don't know if there was coordination with N.A. engineers or not, but the results were fantastic and the plane was sent to N.A. for proper engineering. Story #2. Kindleberger was ticked off at GM's attitude and went looking for another engine. Rolls Royce Merlin was the most promising, but they could not produce the number of Merlins required. Rolls Royce went looking for a quality manufacture and eventually negotiated a deal with Packard. Don't know the time frame between story one and two. Who brokered the Packard deal, Kindleberger? When the Spitfire and the P-51 were powered by the same engines, the P-51 was always 20 to 40 mph faster. When God said man shall fly, he definitely had the P-51 in mind. We have one at our local WWII Air Museum and the Merlin sounds so beautiful. I recognized the sound the first time it flew in and rushed to the airport a mile away and sure enough there sat the beautiful P-51.
Scott Boyd, e-mail, 15.07.2011 06:44
The D is what everybody relates to, I think it was faster then the early versions.
I rode in the back of one once with a guy who owned a ranch and knew all the neighbor ranchers in Colorado. 50 feet at Red line for miles and anything else he wanted to do.
Steven, 14.07.2011 09:00
Greatest fighter ever built.
Aaron, e-mail, 29.05.2011 18:53
Shaun, The title of this page says P-51. The picture is of two p-51As. The profile is a P-51B-10-NA. The specifications are for the P-51D. The three view drawing is of an A-36 and you are correct, there is no Malcolm hood displayed.
Shaun, e-mail, 29.04.2011 13:37
The pictures and 3 view show a P51B but the title says it is a P51D. Something else to not is there are 2 styles of the P51B's canopy.
Fred Krinke, e-mail, 20.04.2011 16:53
In 1946/47 I was attached to the 475 F.G. 5th AF,at Kimpo A.B. Korea. I did radio maintainence on 51's. They were a real pain, the vibration de-tuned the 4 channel VHF SCR521 vacuum tube radio. We constantly had to pull the radios for service. They worked fine ar run-up, and by the time they got to the end of the runway, they did not work.
a.machiaverna, e-mail, 09.04.2011 04:46
In the black and white photograph above, note the carb. intake, thus being a P-51A. If the US Army would have turbosupercharged the Allison V1710 in the P-39, P-40 and P-51A 's , as it did in the P-38' s, the Allison engine would not have the often negative reputation as it does today. A turbosupercharged Allison V1710 could have been used in all P-51 variants with great success.
Lars Hedman, e-mail, 11.03.2011 06:09
In my "serious' flying days a friend - Jim Bohlander, Flight Officer for United - had a P51D with the best N I have ever seen - N4V. His wife was getting spacey about the money Jim's 'hobby' was costing and Jim was getting looking for someone to give his bird a nice home... I flew it a few time out of O'Hare late at night and it was the greatest fun you can have with your pants on. Jim wanted $15,000 for the ship INCLUDING a brand new Rolls engine in cosmo. Naturally, I was more than tempted.... but I had a wife too...
In retrospect I should have bought it... wives are a dime a dozen and she left me anyway. But I still dream of that lovely N4V....
Mick, e-mail, 07.03.2011 09:44
As a BRIT aircraft engineer raised on Hurricanes and Spitfires I am also a great fan of the P51 Mustang, There is something about the sound of a Merlin on full chat. To see and hear this wonderfull beast perform it does not get much better than The Reno Air Races in September in Nevada. I have been to this event many times and to see a P51 lap at around 500 MPH is awsome. Long may these beautifull old birds survive so the youth of today can appreciate the legacy left to them by us old farts.
Ben Beekman, e-mail, 02.03.2011 22:30
Wm. Green, in his book "Famous Fighters of the Second World War" (Hanover House 1960) gives us some interesting factors in the design of this great fighter. The original design specification was written by the British Air Purchasing Commission as a replacement aircraft for the P-40 which they claimed was unsuitable for European combat. They required a prototype in 120 days. North American's president, "Dutch" Kindleberger, was well informed on the air war in Europe and had some ideas of his own. The design team for North American was headed by Raymond Rice and Edgar Schmued, the latter having previously worked for both Fokker and Messerschmitt. By a superhuman effort the prototype was ready (minus engine) in 117 days. First flight was in October 1940 designated as the model NA-73 with very few snags in the flight test program. Greatly reduced drag was obtained by using a laminar flow wing, positioning the intake for the radiator beneath the rear fuselage, and keeping the fuselage cross-section to the least depth possible. The first production airplane was produced within a year and the second production unit arrived in the U.K. in November of 1941. American interest in the aircraft was little, the U.S. being committed to going with the P-38 and P-47. As soon as the Mustang arrived in the U.K. the 1,200 hp Allison engine was seen to be unsuitable for normal fighter duties but acceptable in the ground attack or reconaissance roles. In RAF service the Mustang was the first single-engine fighter to penetrate beyond the German border when based in England, having a range at the time of 1,000 miles. Major Thomas Hitchcock, U.S. military attache in London, reported to Washington that the aircraft was one of the best, if not the best, fighter airframes yet developed and advised cross-breeding it with the 1,520 hp Merlin 61 engine. No less a personage as Eddie Rickenbacker as well as Air Marshal Sir Trafford Leigh-Mallory endorsed Hitchcock's opinion. With a few modifications including a new 4-blade propeller, strengthened fuselage, increasing the radiator intake area and relocating the carburetor intake etc. which enabled an increase in airspeed to 441 mph, the rest is history.
frouin pierre, e-mail, 06.02.2011 20:31
le plus bel avion de chasse de la seconde guerre modial
John Moran, e-mail, 03.02.2011 03:03
If you would like to see the Fastest and Highest flying Mustang. Look up the XP-51G. It would of made production except the Air Force wanted too many design changes. So NAA decided to start over with the P-51H.
Richard P Pearsall, e-mail, 12.12.2010 20:21
A P51 Mustang fitted with a tail hook maade several landings and deck launches, aboard the USS Shangri-La CV38. Did the same with a PBJ (B25). The PBJ was also catapulted.
Brian Kast, e-mail, 11.12.2010 16:11
I have personally seen Jim Parks P-51H, and yes, it is an H model. Jim is still restoring it and doing a marvelous job.
Aaron, e-mail, 28.11.2010 19:08
Grady, 555 P-51H-1-NAs and P-51H-5-NAs were built at the Inglewood prodution lines by V-J Day. By late summer of 1945 some P-51Hs had been issued to a few operational units. These units were in the process of gearing up to operational status when Japan surrendered. IF the USA had been in the same position as Germany in 1942, being called to protect the homeland against swarms of bombers, we would have seen a whole different breed of aircraft by 1944. It is quite likely the following aircraft would have been fully operational and defending our shores by early 1944: P-51F/G/H, F8F-1, F4U-4, F7F-1/3, P-38L(K)and P-80A. There probably would have been other high performance interceptors also. We would have concentrated more on canon armament also. In a totally defensive position the CW-21 and aircraft the like would have been looked into more carefully. The figures normally published for the P-51H are from a North American Aviation graph. I have not found any evidence that proves the graph is not a calculated performance. In a RESTRICTED document titled STANDARD AIRCRAFT CHARACTERISTICS issued by the authority of the Commanding General Air Materiel Command, U.S.A.F., dated March 22, 1949 the following performance figures are listed: Engine: Packard V-1650-9: 2220hp/9,000ft/3,000rpm. Combat weight: 8,740lbs. Max. Speed: 473mph/22,700ft. 468mph/25,000ft. Climb: 5480fpm/S.L. 3200fpm/25,000ft. Combat Ceiling (500fpm): 40,700ft. The document also lists the performance at a combat weight of 8283lbs: Speed: 474/22,700ft and 469/25,000ft. Climb: 5850fpm/S.L. and 3450fpm/25,000ft. Combat Ceiling:41,900ft. and Max.Range: 1,915mls. Interceptor: 437mls radius. I believe these figure more accurately describe what the P-51H could do in the field of combat.
grady stoodt, e-mail, 20.11.2010 19:57
GARY, i am almost sure that a p-51h variant was not made
Col. PHIL Duckworth U.S.A.F., 24.10.2010 10:18
Aaron both you and Manuel are very factually correct in your statements about the P-51. I have some photos of captured P-51 Mustangs flown by KG-200, SOME of the MUSTANGS are in NAZI markings, but some are still in American insignia! In one picture Hannah Reich is smiling while she is pointing at an altimeter! Sitting in the cockpit seat is ANNA KREISLING, THE WHITE WOLF OF THE LUFTWAFFE!! In the Los Angeles times last Saturday they reported that Hugh Hefner came over to ANNA at an Octoberfest and offered her a million dollars to do the cover of PLAYBOY. Bill Clinton had to escort him back to his table so that she wouldn't kick him in the groin! However she said she would do the cover of PLAYBOY for ten million, and the money would go to Breast Cancer Research!! Hugh Hefner said he is going to think about it!!
Aaron, e-mail, 30.09.2010 23:12
airboss, According to the Chanute Air Museum there are six P-51Hs still in existance. According to mustangsmustangs there are four. Their list follows: 44-64265: Octoave Chanute Museum, Rantoul IL. (On Display). 44-64314: Mike Coutches, Hayward CA. (Flying). 44-64375: James Parks, Bend OR. (Restoration). 44-64376: Lackland AFB, TX. (On Display).
airboss, e-mail, 30.09.2010 17:41
Anyone have any information on what happened to all of the P-51H (light weight Mustang) that was developed late in the war ? There is one at located at Lackland AFB (44-64376); they were also used by the Texas ANG in the mid-50s. Last info was that there were five (5) left.
Aaron, e-mail, 27.09.2010 00:40
Performance of any specific aircraft is totally dependent on WHEN. Durring WW2 there was a lot of testing being done to improve A/C performance. The move from byplanes to jets in this short period proves that. So with that in mind, I'll start with the Allison Mustang IA, the P-51: 30 December 1942. PROOF DEPARTMENT TACTICAL COMBAT SECTION ARMY AIR FORCES PROVING GROUND COMMAND Eglin Field, Florida. That was a mouthful, but that is the FINAL REPORT ON TACTICAL SUITABILITY OF THE P-51 TYPE AIRPLANE....yea that was the rest of the title. Section a. states: the subject aircraft is the best low altitude American fighter aircraft yet developed, and should be used as the criterion for comparison of subsequent types. The complete report is on an awsome sight that can be viewed by all so I won't go into great detail. The point of WHEN is the maximum speed achieved was 385mph/15,000ft. and the maximum climb was 2427fpm/10,000ft. Those figures come close to the most publisized figures for the P-51A (390mph and 2400fpm). However, an Army Air Forces memorandum report dated April 2, 1943 gives (IMO) a much clearer demonstration of the Allison powered Mustangs capablilities goes like this: ARMY AIR FORCES MATERIEL CENTER FLIGHT SECTION MEMORANDUM REPORT ON Pursuit Single Engine P-51A-1-NA, AAF No. 43-6007, Serial No. FS-M-18-1576-A. The test results were: Engine: 1480hp. Speed: 394mph/5000ft. 415mph/10,400ft. 408mph/17,500ft. 395mph/25,100ft. The last two figures were at 1125hp and 830hp respectively. Climb: 3500fpm/S.L. 3800fpm/7500ft. at WEP. At 1400hp/377mph/S.L. with the Allison V-1710-81.
Aaron, e-mail, 26.09.2010 22:49
Found the article that I had read a year ago. I didn't take the time to figure out who wrote the article or who did the interviewing but the interview was with Bob "Punchy" Powell. "Punchy" flew with the "blue Nose Bastards of Bodney" in Europe. In the article under the subheading P-51 vs P-47 he states: About half my missions were flown in P-47s and the other half in the P-51. Both were great airplanes and each had some advantages over the other. The 47 could outdive anything; had eight guns; could turn with anything above 20,000ft.; could take one hellava beating and get you home. Its major fault was lack of range. The 51 more than doubled the range. It was much more vulnerable to enemy gunfire. So, I loved the Thunderbolt best when making ground attacks on trains, trucks, flak towers and enemy airdromes but prefered the Mustang for bomber escort and air to air combat. I condensed the interview considerably because of the length but it gives you one pilots opinion, who flew both great aircraft. I am not going to list the sight because of possible nixing of my post so just punch dixie wing on your computer and figure it out.
Aaron, e-mail, 24.09.2010 08:48
Maximum performance of any aircraft, especially in wartime is totally dependent on WHEN. A P-51B-1 was tested by the Army Air Forces Material Command at Wright Field in 5/18/43. The aircraft was production No. 43-12093. Maximum Speeds reached at 60.5inches of boost were 363mph/5000ft. 394mph/10000ft. and 441mph/29,800ft. Climb: 3600fpm/S.L. 3540fpm/10,000ft. 2915fpm/20,000ft. In April of 1944 a Mustang III (P-51) was tested at Bascombe Down using 25lbs/sq.in. of boost. The results were as follows: 419mph/5200ft. 423mph/10000ft. 454mph/20,000ft. with an absolute maximum of 455mph/17,800ft. Climb: 4500fpm/S.L. 3985fpm/10,000ft. 2990fpm/20,000ft. By April of 1944 the Mustang (in tests) was reaching 20,000ft. in 5 minutes and 15 seconds. on 150 grade fuel. The point I am trying to make is this, as the war progressed, so did the fuel and the military's restraints on the amount of boost allowed on engines. So when you see published figures on any given aircraft you have to take them into context of the time the aircraft was tested.
Aaron, e-mail, 24.09.2010 08:12
Ray, God bless you and thank you for being one of the those that have put their life on the line so that we in the USA can live the dream. You are the MAN like so many before you and still to come. Over all that water I would have prefered the P-38 or the F4U, but then the P-38L, P-63 and P-47N were the only other A/C in our inventory that could have made that trip. Once again, thank you.
Tom Keegan, e-mail, 22.09.2010 05:31
I was misassigned to Godman AFB @ Fort Knox KY. I was with the 108th National Guard units (in error) was composed of NJ,VA &Miss. units with F-47 & F-51.The units were tranfered home and I was sent to Sabre unit 351st.@ George AFB, Victorville CA. Like to hear from any in the Radio Shop. in KY. or Radar Shop at George AFB.
Dudley Fort, e-mail, 15.09.2010 05:41
Steve Larmore is instructing in Crazy Horse, a two seater P51 just south of Orlando Florida. When you get proficient in the rear seat you move to the front seat. This is a real airplane and well worth the $1,200 an hour.
Ray Feld, e-mail, 12.09.2010 19:02
I flew the P51D 1945 out of Iwo escourting B-29s to Japan & back.8 hrs over the Pacific. The Mustang was my horse.
Col. Keith Obermann U.S. ARMY, 06.09.2010 09:20
The picture in DER ADLER of ANNA KREISLING testing a P-51D Mustang in 1944 is very interesting. She is dressed in a black SS uniform and in the footage, she removes her hat and just wears a standard Luftwaffe helmet and goggles. Albert Speer designed a bra for her that held a Walther PPK,which she could easily reach because of her breathtaking cleavage!!IN 1942 Heinrich Himmler presented a matched pair of Silver engraved Walther's with ivory grips. On the slide they say ANNA KREISLING, THE WHITE WOLF. They are currently on display at the Imperial War Museum in London.
Aaron, e-mail, 04.09.2010 16:08
The Mustang certainly help win the conflict in Europe and it was THE best choice for the USAAF as a high altitude long range escort. Especially if cost is considered. The P-38J/L had all the performance of the Merline powered mustangs and the range but at considerably more cost. The same could be said for the P-47N. My personal choice for best all round WW2 piston engine fighter would be the F4U-4 Corsair.
Grady Stoodt, e-mail, 02.09.2010 23:03
I think that the p-51 was the best fighter of all time.
Aaron, e-mail, 20.08.2010 03:37
The three view drawing is of an A-36. The colored profile is a P-51B-10. The photograph is of a P-51A.
Aaron, e-mail, 20.08.2010 01:22
P-51D-15: North American test at Wright Field, Dayton, Ohio on June 15, 1945 (aircraft was tested with wing racks): ENGINE: V-1650-7 boosted to war emergency power (67"). SPEED: 375mph/SL. 416mph/10,000ft. 421mph/20,000ft. 442mph/26,000ft. 408mph/30,000ft. CLIMB: 3600fpm/SL.- 4800ft. 3000fpm/20,000ft. COMBAT CEILING (1,000fpm): 35,000ft. SERVICE CEILING (100fpm): 41,900ft. WEIGHT AT TAKE-OFF: 9,760lbs. I read an article about a year ago. I can't remember who it was written by but I remember the person being affiliated with North American and the military. He stated the true maximum performance of the P-51D was as follows: SPEED: 448mph at critical altitude. INITIAL CLIMB: 3745fpm/SL. SUSTAINED CLIMB: 3,475fpm. I did not copy the article and I wish I could find it again. It was very interesting and indeapth. I'll post Offical Military performance test results for the P-51A and P-51B as soon as I am able.
BOB, 24.07.2010 10:29
The P-51 was just one of the classic single seat fighters of WWII and well suited to the USA, came in late in WWII and thinks it won the war all on its own.
Manuel, e-mail, 20.07.2010 02:37
I read all the posts here and found them interesting. The NA P-51 is the best fighter aircraft to come out of World War II. A Special Congressional Commission after the the war made that determination. In the photo above are 2 P-51A models with Allison engines. The drawing is of a P-51B or C model With the Merlin engines. The difference is the location they were make (B model in Inglewood, CA and the C model in Dallas, TX). The P-51D (also with Merlin engines) built in Inglewood, CA is the most popular of all the models, but a K model was identical being built in Dallas TX. One of the most interesting of the variants is the XP-82 Twin Mustang, where 2 P-51H fuselages were mated to create a very powerful attack aircraft. Various National Guards used them for many years. Alas, with all these planes built by North American Aviation Co. maybe about 100 are still around the world, with many of them not even flyable.
carl wollaston, e-mail, 01.06.2010 23:10
I personally think that the mustang is the best fighter of all time.Maybe not the most famous, but most lijkely the best.Well, even the military says so. I was watching a show on the military channel called "top tens" where they count down the top ten best fighters,bombers,tanks, etc.and i was watching the one about fighters and they the p-51 mustang came in first.
Ron, e-mail, 22.05.2010 23:23
I'm developing a Program on the P-51 from it's birth in WW2 up to today. If you have any qiestions I may be able to answer them also if you have any tips or good information I may add it to my program.
GARY, e-mail, 07.05.2010 18:28
THE P-51 WAS A GREAT FIGHTER OF WW2.THE EARLY P-51s HAD "TEETHING" TROUBLE.I THINK THERE WERE A FEW NORTH AMERICAN AVIATION CORP.TEST PILOTS KILLED TRYING TO FLY THE PROTOTYPE P-51s.THE P-51h IS MY FAVORITE P-51 VARIANT.
Big Johnny, e-mail, 27.04.2010 23:56
You are thinking about the Tuskeegee Airmen. The first all Afican American, fighter squadron. The original was the 99th. There leader was Benjamin O. Davis. They flew escort for the 15th airforce out of Ramatelli Italy. They had one ace, Lee Archer who passed away a few months ago.
Hans Crews Jr, e-mail, 14.04.2010 05:53
I think that there was also a group of airmen who made history when, they became the first blacks to graduate from flight training and excelled in combat in europe. They deserve some credit and history has been long in giving it to them, so my hat is off to them.
Ron, e-mail, 07.04.2010 00:07
The P-51 story is a real kick. So much has been said already, I tend to highlight others. That doesn't mean it's not a favorite of mine too. True, it could be out-turned, out climbed and out fought close-in by many worthy fighters. But how many could fly higher, faster, and farther?
Gerry Asher, e-mail, 31.03.2010 04:45
My father, SSGT Pat Asher, was a crew chief on TF-51Hs & T-33s at Tyndall, 1951-55. Cecil J. Poss and Wrench007, PLEASE get in touch with me.
John Mercer, e-mail, 21.03.2010 04:39
As a little boy, I used to watch the Idaho National Guard training with Mustangs high above my house. You could always hear them (with that beautiful, unique Packard Merlin sound) but you couldn't always see them because they were up so high. I had to use strong binoculars! This plane is by far my favorite of all time. Go to "Mustang Encounters" on the web and read about the many WW2 Mustang pilots kills. Many of these include the German ME262 jet in high altitude encounters! Great reading about the greatest fighter plane ever!
Don Rowland, e-mail, 03.03.2010 17:31
I was lucky enough to get a backseat ride in a cavalier conversion P-51D in 1964, still get a thrill when I think of it again.
Fred Benenati, e-mail, 17.02.2010 05:50
The description is of the D model, but the plane shown in the color drawing is of a B or C, not an A. The B was manufactured at Inglewood, CA, not Palmdale, as J. Bassett says. The C model was, in fact, manufactured at the Dallas plant, as he correctly mentions.
cecil j. poss, 26.01.2010 18:59
I finally got to fly the P-51D in 1945. I It was transferred out of the Reserve unit after I had 3+ 45 hrs in it. Great A/C! In 1952 I was at Tyndal field and flew about 500+ hours in the P51H model. It was the fastist a/c of the wwii. 487 @25000 feet. Another great a/c. Retired in September 1971 after 30 yrs.
Tyler Mason, e-mail, 11.01.2010 16:18
How would this aircraft stack up to the fighter planes of this decade? Would it handle better or worse? Speed?
wrench007, e-mail, 09.01.2010 06:17
Both my Dad and I are military pepole. My father flew the P-51 and several other aircraft. He recently gave me the original Pilot training manual and the Pilot's Flight Operation instructions manual. I wasn't aware that the model was for the F-51-H aircraft. But I treasure these two manuals.
Adam Riley, e-mail, 09.01.2010 02:44
The Mustang was the greatest aircraft of World War II. It went from design to prototype in just 117 days and first flight in just 178 days thats unheard of at the time. It was developed for the British after North American approached them and tried to sell them the B-25 Mitchell. They were not intrested instead they asked if they could manufacture the Tomahawk under license from Curtiss. North American replied that they could make a new and better aircraft in less time than it would take to tool up for the Tomahawk.
dbanks, e-mail, 04.01.2010 22:50
1952 - Crew chief'd a P51D at K46 (Wonju , Korea. What a plane! Got to taxi each day between overnight storage and sortie area. Can't remember how many times I wanted to pull out to the runway and shove the throttle forward and gently pull the stick back!! Would probably be dead or still in Leavenworth. Would have been worth it. Great book: "Flying Legends" published by MBI tells the P-51 story with GREAT pictures.
George Gallu, e-mail, 12.12.2009 00:38
I had always heard that the air scoop was placed mid-ship because the engine was going to be behind the pilot and from the pictures it would have been possible. I also read that the British turned down our P-51 because because they wanted the engine in the front and we refused. Knowing what I read and believed, why is the air-scoop amid-ship and howe did it function properly ?? I was 11 at the end of the war.
paul scott, e-mail, 10.09.2009 23:06
Yes, as Leo below says, three lines for the Mustang? Saw one a couple of days from this date, at Foxley's Farm airshow in Leicestershire, beautiful, lovely sound from what may or may not have been a proper Merlin, but undoubtedly wonderful to see!(And hear)
Ronald, e-mail, 24.08.2009 04:13
Dive was red-lined at 571 for the P-51 B (equal to the Macchi C 202) and 533 mph for the D model. Of course they could dive another 100 mph faster (around 630mph) with some risk to the American pilots.
Jean Hardy, e-mail, 19.08.2009 01:20
I'm looking for P-51D Mustang engine mounts (left and right hand engine mount).
Can you be of any help.
Thanks, Jean
leo rudnicki, e-mail, 07.04.2009 22:21
Barely 3 lines of history for the Mustang? Bob Hoover and his yellow Mustang, best demonstration ever.(I never saw Zura fly) The allied fighter which projected power and achieved air supremacy over enemy skies. Blue nose, red nose, red tail,whatever,Greatjob.
stephen russell, e-mail, 15.06.2008 04:00
Sat in P-51D cockpit, very unqiue experience, some air show. Sitting in History. Love 2 fly back seat in plane BUT cramped. Neat.
Ace Avakian, e-mail, 07.06.2008 03:23
...flew the NA A36 "Apache" just for a short time but enjoyed every minute of it! This was with the Allison engine then the Brits put a RollsRoyce in it and really made an airplane out of it!!!
Jock Williams, e-mail, 25.05.2008 03:35
I was lucky enough to check out in the P51 in 1982 after about 5000 hrs in high performance jets like the F5 and F104 as well as the ubiquitous T33. While in performance it was like a T33 with a Mack truck engine up front -it was a "Mustang" -with all the history and mystique that involves. I had soloed one 28 years earlier as a private pilot -I think the owner waqs hoping for thye insurance -but THIS time -I was qualified -and it was a delight! This was done for a Canadian TV show called Thrill of a Lifetime -and it truly was!
Col. M.J. Martin, e-mail, 09.05.2008 05:50
The A or B model is pictured but the discription is the D model. I loved that airplane.
James Sumrow, e-mail, 02.05.2008 16:54
My dad worked for North American during World War II at Grand Prairie also. He was a machinist. Some where my sister has a picture of the first P51 prototype with the crew that built her. My dad is in the picture. I was born in Fort Worth in 1946 and we lived in Arlington.
Jim Whittenton, e-mail, 18.04.2008 23:15
My Dad worked for North American Aircraft at their Grand Prarie, Texas plant during WWII. He build the wooden frame for the oil cooler scoop under the plane's belly. My Mom would leave a little early to pick Dad up from work and park on an incline across the road from the north end of the North-South runway. I still get a thrill remembering sitting there and watching these beautiful, shiney brand new P-51s take off with a roar and a flash of silver!!!
J. Bassett, e-mail, 02.04.2008 01:21
The two aircraft in the drawing appear to be early P51A models with the allison engine and shallow radiator housing underneath. Also the air intake inlet is over the nose Vs. the later B,C,D, models with merlin engines having the chin air inlet under the prop. I believe the five slash markings on the rear fuselage appear to be that of a CBI 14th AAF group (China).Note the DF loop antenas on the top of the rear fuselages as well. The color aircraft C5L, depicted below that is a B model{Palmdale Ca.factory?) or, a C model (Dallas factory) no outward difference,but with the later and more powerful merlin engine. It has the larger radiator housing underneath,that had laminer flow qualities somewhat like the wing, producing less drag.Billy,you are right on!A real cool machine! And yes, the D model was produced with a bubble canopy.
Billy Smith, 29.02.2008 16:19
The Mustang is the coolest plane ever made!!!!
dan short, e-mail, 04.05.2007 07:19
hi, i am building a scale p-51d rc aircraft and would like to add as much detail as possible. now my question is did they have navigation and landing lights. i thought the landing lights were on the landing gear struts but a friend of mine says no. can you answer this for me? thanks Dan
snakeeater67428@aol.com, e-mail, 02.12.2006 11:36
ok that is not a P-51D the D models have the complete bubble canapy is there 3 veiw of one with the bubble canapy
