Sorry to comment after eight years. So, McGuire's P-38 did have an exploded 20mm round in it so it's possible he did get hit by the Ki-84 flown by Mizunori Fukuda. However, Fukuda claimed that it was McGuire's crash that caught his attention. So he apparently wasn't responsible.
The 20mm shell may have come from the P-38 itself.
lxbfYeaa, e-mail, 14.03.2024 06:46
20
lxbfYeaa, e-mail, 14.03.2024 06:35
20
ron, e-mail, 16.03.2017 22:50
When the Germans sent 20mm Mauser cannons to Japan, what if a pair was installed in the cowl of the Ki 43? Perhaps it would have been made in Japan if it was demonstrated as superior in the Ki 43. 10% reduction in RoF is so much better than 60% for the IJAAF 20mm Ho-3 or Ho-5, synchronized with the prop. Even the 12.7mm Ho-103 of the Ki 43 had a similar penalty, also being Browning based like the 20mm cannons. If the tropics were unfriendly to electric firing Mausers, at least they could work in temperate zones of Asia. I would give up the less effective twin 103s for even just one 20mm Mauser with more firepower. If there was not room for it on top of the nose, it has ample space underneath. In fact the Ki 43 has wingloading to spare. So, 4 Mausers under the belly and sides, with ammo on the 'cg' would do nicely! If that is too much weight, up-engine to the Ha-112-II with 1,500 hp and increase W/A again if necessary. The Mausers were used only in the wings of Ki 61s. Another opportunity lost. They did well, but they should've been mass produced under license in Japan. Then installed on every Japanese fighter even without the electronic firing for reliability, they would do better than Browning based designs in the nose.
francis dec, 24.09.2016 01:26
1988 miles range insane.. if Germany had some Oscars in Battle of Britain who knows? German planes had crummy range for sure.
ron, e-mail, 13.06.2016 06:34
Correction. It was Tommy McGuire not Jimmy.
Ron, e-mail, 11.06.2016 03:05
The 'light' MG 7.7mm Type 89: 12kg 7.7x58mm SR Cartridge 657 sync/ 900 rpm 600m Range 810mps M/V Ball 13.15g AP 10.5g T 10.04g I 10.5g HE 10.5g PETN/RDX 10.9gpr Ave Sync/ 119.8g/s CP 1 GP 11 These persisted on the Ki 43 beyond mid-war due to it's reliability and RoF. Accuracy may have been a problem though.
ron, e-mail, 10.06.2016 10:51
At first, most of us are put off with the lack of speed and guns of the Oscar, but then you find out no other Japanese fighter shot down as many Allied planes. Go figure! That warrants a second look. As for speed, the rival A6M5c Zero added guns and actually got slower while the Ki 43-IIIa passed it in speed. Of course by this time both were way too slow. I have to give the Ki 43 credit for having seat armor protection long before the Zero did. As for the guns, the Ki-43-IIIb with 20mm cannons didn't see action. But most of us don't know about this: (5001st Toku - Tokko Tai Dokuritsu Chutai) had been originally equipped with two 12.7 mm MG;s but these were replaced by 20 mm at Gifu before departure for SWPA, to test suitability of 20 mm. These hydraulicly operated canons were shorter than the Ho-5 and still protruded 4". I think they were perhaps the 20mm Ho-3 cannons. Ammo was 200 rounds each. The planes were Ki 43-IIs. 5001st Special Attack Unit, Independent Squadron was formed at Kagamigahara, Gifu on 25th December 1943. It was sent to SWPA as a test unit which if unsatisfactory, would be dissolved and pilots and airplanes sent to other units. Unit was equipped with 15 Oscar 2 fighters - four flights of three airplanes each, and three airplanes in reserve; according to the J.Aircraft site. January 7, 1944 Jimmy McGuire was shot down over Negros, central Philippines. He was the US ace of aces with a score of 38. These Oscars of the 5001st were still in Formosa, but was it close enough for the Ki 43? A 20mm shell was found in his wrecked P-38. He was in combat with 1 Oscar and 1 Frank. I was sure the Ki 84 Frank did it, before I knew about these special Oscars. The 20mm cannon armed Special Unit of Oscars arrived in Manila January 9, 1944. Now I wonder who really did him in. Was Akira Sugimoto in the 5001st?
ron, e-mail, 03.06.2016 10:49
The IJAAF 7.7mm Type 89 MG 7.7x58mm Cartridge 900 rpm / 657 rpm sync 600m Range 810mps M/V 10.54gpr Ave
On my last post the Red and Blue Italian HEI shells are 2, not one shell with 2 bands. The Red is 36.935g and the Blue is 36.854g to be exact, but when I rounded it off, this could be misunderstood as one and the same. The heavier Red banded shell was self destructive.
ron, e-mail, 03.06.2016 04:00
The last post is based on the ammo aboard a captured fighter, detailing the colored bands on the shells. Other APT rounds had red tracer instead of white.
Untill 1943 Italian ammo was also used by the Japanese like the Red and Blue band 36.9g 'HEI' shells; 0.6g PETN; M/V 770mps. Japanese 12.7mm guns often misfired with Italian made ammo.
ron, e-mail, 01.06.2016 12:07
The ammo of Japanese manufacture for the 12.7mm Ho-103 Type 1 HMG was:
35.5g APT with green & white bands. (0.2g) white T. 760m/s.
34.5g HEI with white band. (2g) RDX+I. 770m/s.
32.9g HEI with purple band. 0.8g PETN, (1.4g) RDX+I. 796m/s.
The numbers in parenthesis are approximate, from seperate sources. The white band shell was called HE and the purple band shell was called Incindiary by the Allies (RAAF in this case).
ron, e-mail, 18.03.2016 07:04
When the Ki 43-II debuted, it should have added a 20mm cannon under the cowl with a long barrel and the ammo on the cg. More than one would be better but the power would need a serious upgrade. I'd be curious about testing a 40mm H0-301 in the tail to give assailants pause if they get on it's 6. The range of 150m would be perhaps compensated for by the speed of the Allied plane closing from behind. In any case it could force lower % deflection fire. At best, one 40mm hit from the stinger could kill an Allied plane. Failing that, any normal range rear firing gun would be a deterrant. After the tide of war turned, it needed some defensive measure. At least I'd be curious to test it.
The IJA lost so many pilots in NG and the Solomons, these Oscars needed more firepower but without losing the advantage in agility altogether. If the 20mm was too big for the upper cowl, why not just put it down under?
No other WW 2 fighter still had only 2 MGs till the end of the war in front line service like the Oscar!
francis dec, 13.03.2016 00:37
nearly 2000 mile range! me109 had 400 mile range and lost battle of britain as a result
Ron, e-mail, 26.12.2015 10:44
Let me quote an excerpt: "And here is the special thing - armament. Guns : Two 20 mm cannon. Airplanes of PW's unit (5001st Toku - Tokko Tai Dokuritsu Chutai) had been originally equipped with two 12.7 mm MG;s but these were replaced by 20 mm at Gifu before departure for SWPA, to test suitability of 20 mm. Other Type 1F Oscar Mark 2, as far as he knew, did not have 20 mm cannon. Ammunition : 200 rounds per gun.
From the other section. "He was then shown three different types of 20 mm cannon viz: Oerlikon type, old and improved models (most likely Navy Type 99-I and Type 99-II - Hiro), and the MG 151/20 from Tony. He doubted that cannon installed in his airplane were similar to any of these. He showed great interest in the MG 151/20 and was definitely of the opinion that it was not of Japanese manufacture. He explained that cannon in his airplane were operated hydraulically and therefore could not possibly have been MG 151/20s. However, throught his statements he frequently added that he had never inspected his cannon very closely and therefore could never be positive should he be shown one. He explained that the muzzles of the guns of his plane protruded approximately 3-4 inches forward of the top portion of the blast tubes. When shown smaples of 20 mm amunition from the older type Oerlikon and from the high velocity 20 mm cannon installed in Type 2EB Helen, he stated that the ammunition used by the cannon in his airplane was a size between these. (PW was definite in his statements regarding installation of cannon in Type 1 fighter Oscar Mark 2).
This is sort of revelation, however not all his descriptions were accurate or true. For instance the top speed of his Ki-43 was largely exaggerated, even Model 3 was not supposed to reach the speeds of 600 kph TAS in level flight. His dive limit was also exaggerated, as Model 2 Oscar was not supposed to exceed 650 kph Indicated. Lastly the fuel capacity exceeded that given in the manual by 200 liters. He either did not know his aircraft, which does not seem probable considering he was educated person, with a great flight experience but also important duties. As a flight instructor he most certainly knew his aircraft.
In this case the question about 20 mm armed Oscar is open. As we know Model 3 to be equipped with Ho-5 20 mm cannon required a construction changes, namely increasing the length of the nose to accommodate larger armament and ammunition boxes. Could ordinary Oscar 2 be equipped with those ? Do we know anything about 5001st Special Attack Unit and its aircraft ? If all Oscars of his unit were equipped with 20 mm cannon as PW claims than it would be a very important unit at that time.
PW informed that 5001st Special Attack Unit, Independent Squadron was formed at Kagamigahara, Gifu on 25th December 1943. It was sent to SWPA as a test unit which if unsatisfactory, would be dissolved and pilots and airplanes sent to other units. Unit was equipped with 15 Oscar 2 fighters - four flights of three airplanes each, and three airplanes in reserve. On 8th January 1944 entire unit flew to Tachiarai and stayed one hour for refuelling. Same day they proceeded to Kagi, Formosa. They left it on January 9th and arrived Nielson Airfield, Manila where they remained for 3 days. On January 12 they arrived Manado, only to leave it next day stopping for a few hours at Babo to finally arrive to Wewak on January 14, 1944.
In his day when shot down (January 16, 1944) 12 airplanes left Wewak at 09:00, and were joined over Boram by 18 Oscars and Tonys. Together they proceeded toward Saidor to engage Allied fighters protecting Allied landings. He flew at approx 4500 meters at speed of 350 kph. At some point they were intercepted by 24 P-40s rising from a height of 2500/3000 meters. Four Allied airplanes broke formation to attack Japanese flank, Pw intercepted and shot down one of them and hit another which he claimed, he saw smoking badly. During combat PW was hit and crashed." -J-aircraft site.
650 kph= 404 mph. 600 kph= 373 mph.
15 custom armed Oscars. Piloted by pros. Special indeed!
TORBJÖRN KAMPE, e-mail, 18.10.2015 22:51
this aircraft has lot of good maneuverability. better than the Spitfire.
Ron, e-mail, 23.09.2015 21:55
Reference: J-aircraft Forums General Category Japanese Army Aircraft Message Board Topic: 5001st Special Attack Unit Oscar Mark 2 armament
Ron, e-mail, 23.09.2015 21:36
1150 hp Ki 43-II is said to stall at 81 mph, max level TAS 373 mph, 311 mph IAS, 404-435 mph dive. 15 service test fighters with 2x20mm cannons @ 200 rpg. Early 1944. Make of this what you will. It sounds to me like Ki 44 info was mixed in, perhaps translation was a factor as well. 404 mph is more credible to me than 435 mph for dive, unless stress of interrigation got this crossed with the Ki 44 Dive and Max level speed which matches up. This was unofficial info from a captured instructor who piloted one of these 15 special cannon armed Oscars that got shot down.
Ron, e-mail, 13.12.2014 07:23
Axis History Forum is where I got the 8 g fill for the Ho-103 HE shell. I see 0.8 g everywhere else, so I may be wrong. It could be a typo. Sorry. 2.2 g and 2.2% can also be found. Also 2.0 PETN is given for the HE in the HEI shell. Incendiary fill weight not given. So, if it's 0.2 g, that could be the 2.2 g mentioned. As for the 2.2%, it equals 0.8 g of 34.2-37.5 g HE shell, approx. So, it could be either way, 2.2% or 2.2 grams - given incomplete numbers. For comparison, the A6M5b Type 3 13.2 mm 44.18 g HEI shell has 2.28 g of filler. The Breda-SAFAT 37.5 g HEIT shell has 0.6 g of fill. A captured Ki 43 had APT, HE,I belting. I bet the APT is really an APIT @ 36.7 g @ 760 mps. The only Ho-103 APT I found is on the Axis site @ 34.2 g @ 760 mps, but it gives that same weight for the APIT and HEIT as well. Perhaps it's the average. The HE shell could be 33 g or 37.5 g 796 mps. The I shell is 36.5 g but filler weight isn't given. Another belting is AP, HE, HET, AP. AP is 35.4 g @ 760 MPS. HET must mean the HEIT shell 37.5 g (Breda) @ 770 mps. HE see above. Warthunder shows a belting of AP, APIT, HE, HE, I. Air combat: APIT, HE, I. There are others too. I don't know what these are based on. Game modeling is often revised for the players. So much for my previous simplified post.
Ron, e-mail, 06.12.2014 02:12
This fighter screams for more bite.
The LMG Type 89 was fast enough synchronized but range was only 600 m and was only able to add to the damage done by the HMG Ho-103 which was too slow by itself when synchronized. So, the vast majority of Ki 43s were of mixed armament in combat.
Type 89-2 7.7mmx58mm RoF: 657 rpm M/V: 810-820 mps 10.5 gpr Range: 600 m Ammo: 500 rpg
Ho-103 12.7mmx81mm RoF: 425 rpm M/V: 760-780 mps 35.4 gpr APT 33 gpr HE (8 g PETN) Range: 750 m Ammo: 270 rpg
Once the Italian ammo was made in Japan, it no longer tended to jam (or worse) in the Ho-103 gun. It had very high chemical content for a 12.7mm HE round.
Ron, e-mail, 23.10.2014 03:53
(A short digest of data on the Ki 43)
Ki 43-I Oscar was accepted after Combat flaps were installed so that it could out-turn the Ki 27 Nate. Wing loading was 19 lb/sq ft and a full turn to the left took 10.8 sec at about 2,000' and 205 mph; radius was around 302-308' left or right. It could do a double-double Immelmann (4 in quick sequence)! It could go as slow as 50 mph during aerobatics. It could roll in a dive up to 300 mph. Care had to be taken on pullout or the wings may fold. Top level speed was only 308 mph /5Km altitude which was attained in 5 min 30 sec climb. P/L was 4.6 lb/hp for excellent acceleration. Though the pre-production prototype had pilot armor and 12.7mm HMGs these were stripped for production. 716 Ki 43-I Oscars were biult until Feb 1943. Most were armed with twin Type 89 synchronized 7.7mm MGs firing 657 rpm each, mounted in the cowl. Some 12.7mm Ho-103 HMGs were used but proved unreliable using Italian ammo. These rounds were fine in Italian guns, but eventually this was solved by Japanese manufacture of this ammo. No more miss-firing! These had a synchronized RoF between 400-450 rpm.
From Nov 1942 the Ki 43-II was produced until Oct 1944, Perhaps about 3,440 were biult. It's new engine improved speed to 329 @ 4 Km; 341 mph @ 6 Km; 372 mph in a dive. P/L slipped to 5 lb/hp and climb to 5 Km took 5 min 49 sec. 6 K;m took under 6 min 30 sec. Initial climb rate was 3290 fpm @ SL and about 3400 fpm @ 5 km. Loaded weight had increased nearly 1200 lbs and the stronger wings were clipped so W/L increased to 28 lb/sq ft! Still good agility and acceleration vs the Allies. In Nov 1943 pilot armor and fuel tank protection was installed as another reason for the extra weight besides more powerful HMGs and hp...etc.
The final Version to see action in WW 2 was the Ki 43-III. From the prototypes in May 1944 to the end, about 1,727 were built (production: July 1944-Aug 1945). A new engine for better altitude performance now gave a P/L 4.6 lb/hp again and time to climb 5Km took only 5 min 19 sec. Top speed @ 22,000' was now 358 mph (faster than the rival A6M5c or A6M7 Zeros). And W/L improved to 24.5 lb/sq ft. But still no cannons!! The cannon armed Ki 43-IIIb never entered production.
Can you imagine if the Japanese had made their own version of the imported Mauser MG 151/20 cannon for synchronized RoF superior to the Ho-5? Most Japanese fighters had cowl guns, Army and Navy. The Ki 43 was most in need of something like this mid-war. The Ki 61 had them. But can you picture over 4,000 Oscars armed with Mauser derived nose cannons, 2 or more each? Not to mention the slow Navy cannons might get a second look, after all the Army fighters are refitted. Just what if?
Ron, e-mail, 04.10.2014 13:05
The Allied pilots spoke in awe of Oscars performing double-double Immelmanns (that's 4 consecutively), horizontal spins, flip-rolls, snaking vertical climbs, as well as extremely tight turns. Some moves even a Zero couldn't follow much less any of them.
That 11 second 360 degree turn is close to the A6M2 as well.
But the Ki 43-I could roll with a foe up to 300 mph unlike the Zero 21. Both full span.
Ron, e-mail, 07.07.2014 23:39
I'm now leaning more toward 400 instead of 700 rpm for the Type 3 HMG, synchronized, to correct my last post. 700 is not in line, especially with a heavier 13.2mm ammo belt than the 12.7mm Ho-103 HMG.
The reliability of the Ho-103 suffered when using Italian made ammo but this changed when the ammo was made in Japan. The Italian Breda-SAFAT was not Browning based like the Ho-103. The Italian ammo was reliable in their own HMG and the RoF synchronized was 575 rpm.
As for the Ki 43, I would put another pair of Ho-103s in the cowl if not in the wings. Worst case, 1 more in the cowl at least. It had enough agility in excess vs America for 3 guns or more. Granted the wings might need strengthening for a pair of wing-guns but that was needed anyway for improved dive (another glaring weakness). If there was room in the bottom of the nose, I'd put 1 or 2 there. Can you imagine a 6 gun Oscar! It would still be more agile than the 6 gun A6M5c Zero. Heck, put an Ho-5 under the nose! That would leave a mark, even at 400 rpm. Then 3 guns might do it. The A6M5c had double that. Why should the Oscar start the war with 2 MGs and end the war with only 2 MGs? The Ki 43-IIIb with 2 Ho-5 cannons missed the war. It should have been in service with the first Ho-5 mid-war! And then 3 or 4 Ho-5s. It had enough agility to spare unlike the Ki 44 or Ki 61.
Ron, e-mail, 22.04.2014 00:32
The TAIC lists the dive limit for the clipped Ki 43-II at 372 mph. Noticeably less than the 400+ mph clipped Zero 32.
Another inferior comparison: 7.7 mm Type 89 MGs synchronized rate of fire: 657 rpm. 12.7 mm Ho-103 MGs " : 425 rpm. (A touch less than I posted before)
The slow rate of the Ho-103 was disliked for dogfighting. Especially when compared to the A6M5b 13.2 mm synchronized Type 3 MG: 700 rpm. Therefor, many returned one 12.7 mm Ho-103 MG for one faster more reliable 7.7 mm Type 89 light MG, preferring mixed guns (the A6M5b likewise had mixed nose-guns). This is curious since unsynchronized, the tables are turned with 900 rpm vs 800 rpm respectively. (Approx)53% vs 13% reduction. Go figure! Both guns are Browning style designs, am I wrong?
The Ki 43 combat flaps were a plus, good for at 1 or 2 less lb per square foot of wingloading, in effect. Unfortunately, it hooked the Japanese pilots on slow close-in tactics to fight the last war, against the other side who eventually showed up with powerful WW2 planes and energy tactics. Like they were addicted to this fighter, fighting planes with double their hp and triple their guns. It's a wonder the Oscars faired as well as they did. At least Nakajima had the forsight to follow up with the Tojo and Frank in strong numbers while Mitsubishi stuck with Zero production too much at the expense of the Jack and Sam fighters.
Ron, e-mail, 14.04.2014 10:52
I was just wondering about the margin of improvement the 'butterfly' combat flaps gave the turn performance of the Nakajima fighters. They enabled an Oscar pre-service test plane with more features than the typical production model of 19 lbs/sq ft wingloading to turn at least as well as a Ki 27 Nate (unknown version) typically with 16.4 lbs/sq ft wingloading but without the new combat flaps. Those wingloadings are for production versions but the planes in the comparison should be relatively close to these. If anything the loaded down test Oscar is even more remarkable to turn so tight. I don't know the non production figures. But in broad terms the flaps were good for equalling at least 2.6 lbs/sq ft difference in wingloading. Enough to go from a thumbs down to a thumbs up by the test pilots.
Think what this means for the Tojo and Frank wingloadings. They had these flaps too. Subtract in effect 2.6 lbs/sq ft from theirs too. 37.7 is effectively 35.1 for the Ki 44-IIb and 35.1 is like 32.5 for the Ki 84-Ia in a turn... more or less. Again these are based on typical known production loaded weights unlike the test comparison.
Point is you can't judge the turn performance merely by their wingloading or they may surprise you.
Ron, e-mail, 14.04.2014 09:51
Hey Hiroyuli, You're right. They say about 1,000 Ki 43-IIIa Oscars were made in WW2.
Too bad it just had the 2 MGs. No mass production of the 20 mm cannon armed Ki 43-IIIb seems to have occurred in time.
Ron, e-mail, 24.12.2012 09:08
Hi X, Anyone would agree at least at first. But bear in mind most Hayabusas had light machine guns or a mix of one reliable 7.7-mm and one 12.7-mm that was less reliable. Only later did they improve to the point of twin heavy machine guns. Still they had claimed more allied planes than any other Jap fighter! And mostly US planes tough as any in the war. The difference that I suspect accounts the most for this would be that no allied plane could shake one on their tail close-in (short of diving away) like they could a Luftwaffe plane. If the Ki 43 pilot (and his buddies) had all day to shoot at you, it had enough ammo to do damage; but if you tried the same on his six, its like trying to swat a fly (or a swarm of flies). Anyway, that's my opinion. Too many Allied pilots were slow to learn not to give the Oscar the firing time on target required. Overclaiming is another factor but not so much more so than with any other Japanese fighter type. Also the Ki 43 and Ki 84 confused Allied pilots who mistook one for the other with favorable consequences for the Nakajima pilots. Just take the death of ace Tom McGuire for instance.
Of course by mid-war, the slow (max. speed) but quick (accelerating) Oscars were losing the battle left and right despite many above average pilots, but that's true also in the rest of the Axis. Against the Japanese (especially Oscars and Zeros), US pilots learned their lesson and kept up their speed with hit and run tactics only.
X, 07.07.2012 07:20
2 x 12.7mm machine-guns are totally useless in fierce battles like the ones over Europe
Ron, e-mail, 14.04.2012 23:10
I want to make a slight correction to my last post. The Ki 43-II got the more powerful engine and the IIa got the armored seat etc.. in Nov. 1943 as I said but the A6M5b entering production in June only had the armored glass. The armored seat came in the A6M5c starting production in Oct. 1944 - 11 months after the Hayabusa and furthermore the Zero did not get a more powerful engine and performance was degraded compared to the Ki 43-IIa. So for whatever it's worth, the Zero needed the new 1560 hp MK8P Kinsei-62 by then as planned by the design team (A6M5 in time for autumn 1943 combat) but nooo! Only the postwar A6M8 got that thanks to the Navy higher-ups. So the armor issue makes the Oscar look good when compared to the Zero at least. So the Zero became the kamakazi standard.
Ron, e-mail, 11.04.2012 06:33
I believe the last pre-series Ki 43 had the experimental 1150 hp Ha-105, pilot armor, and 12.7 mm cowl guns in 1940 and still surpassed the Ki 27 (Nate) in maneuverability due to the new combat flaps. Unfortunately on January 9, 1941 it began production with the old but plentiful 7.7 mm guns and the underpowered 975 hp Ha-25 radial and you guessed it, armor protection was thus all unloaded as a result! Why make things difficult to mass produce? Right? Thus it didn't have to be obsolete off the bat but it was for expediency. Big mistake! The cost in pilots lost proved too high and those missing upgrades were slowly restored over the years. In the Ki 43-Ib had mixed armament of one 12.7 mm and one 7.7 mm. The Ki 43-II had the Ha 115 type 2 motor with 1150 hp at just under 10,000 ft. By November 1943 the Ki 43-IIa had it's armor back. 2 years gone and we're almost back to 1940 prototype level! It had TWO 12.7 mm guns though. That was on it's way too. Patience... I must admit that the A6M Zero was still without any armor until mid 1944 by comparison. And after that it's performance constantly fell while that of the Ki 43 surpassed it. The Hayabusa only progressed... then the Ki 84 Hayate replaced it (Ki 44 as well) and in good numbers too. It's Mitsubishi rival was the ill fated A7M Reppu (Sam) no show. Credit Nakajima!
Ron, e-mail, 31.12.2011 09:01
Itokawa and his design staff were not proud when they built the first Nakajima prototype to the unrealistic requirements of the JAAF. It was rejected by the Army as a result. Demoralized, the Itokawa's team set their own more realistic goals, trying different variations of construction, engines, and so on, unhampered by the initial contract specs and design concessions. By the 12th prototype, it was accepted. After the next 10 experimental craft, combat flaps were added for phenomenal turns. Production was now begun. I found that interesting, compliments of Richard M. Bueschel's Military History.
y.k, 18.12.2011 10:29
Yes. After the end of WW2 captured Japanese planes were operated in Indochina.
hedgehoghollow.com/awoic/japan.html
Naga, 14.12.2011 03:54
My limited knowledge of this aircraft does not cover users, but somewhere I heard that France operated a small number of the type. Is this true?
Aaron, e-mail, 10.07.2011 17:45
Ron, The A6m2 compared to the Ki.43-1 was only more maneuverable over all in the vertical plane. The Ki.43s tighter/faster turn, quicker roll rate and faster acceleration gave it dominance on the horizontal plane. Fire power and top speed being the A6m's only advantage. Top speed does not come into play in swirling dogfight.
Ron, e-mail, 04.07.2011 07:02
"As compared to the Mitsubishi A6M2 Reisen, the Ki-43-Ic had a substantially lower wing loading but was nevertheless slightly inferior to the carrier-based fighter in overall maneuverability. The A6M2 was superior to the Ki-43-Ic in zoom climbing speed, although the Ki-43-Ic had a slight edge over the A6M2 in steady climbing rate to 16,400 feet. The primary weakness of the Ki-43-Ic was its light armament..."(Parker info.com). It had twin 7.7-mm cowl guns at first. The Nakajima fighters were known to be more work for the pilot in aerobatics than the Zero. The Ki 43-I did 308 mph max. The A6m2 did 331 mph and at a higher altitude despite the higher ceiling of the Oscar. This is before either plane clipped it's wingspan for roll rate.
The record shows Buffalos of Malaya etc.. did make aces against more Hayabusas than Zeros. And my former post wasn't my invention. It's what I read. I suggest they utilized it's dive advantage for hit and run and steered clear of the cannon armed Zeros (my guess). Pilot quality is probably a big factor between the Japanese navy and army pilots too. Remember the incident with Russia?
Aaron, e-mail, 26.06.2011 22:02
aiergirl, All facts aside, I am very currious as to why you believe a Buffalo could hang on the tail of and Oscar but not a Zero.? The Ki-43 can outroll, outturn, out accelerate and over distance can out climb the contemporay A6M.
Aaron, e-mail, 23.06.2011 20:28
Sorry, I almost forgot the most important features of the Japanese fighters. The large ailerons of the Zero and the combat flaps of the Peregrine Falcon. These features made these two aircraft the tightest turning monoplane fighters of WW2 with one sole exception. The Ki.27 (Nate). (Not real sure about the A5M2-4 Claud)...?
Aaron, e-mail, 23.06.2011 20:07
aiergirl, I am truly sorry about your sensitivity, but those are the specifics and they DO make the difference.
Aaron, e-mail, 23.06.2011 20:01
Hi aiergirl, and WOOPS!,
OK, it is possible that a skilled Buffalo pilot could lock onto the tail of a Ki.43 or A6M2 and do some real damage if he was facing an average JAAF/JNAF pilot. That is true with just about all aircraft of similar power. BUT given pilots of even fairly good skills and the answer is NO WAY...PERIOD. First the most maneuverable Buffaloes to see combat were the B-239 flown by the Finnish. They mostly carried 4x12.7mm guns. They were much lightened and somewhat modified from the Buffaloes that the U.S. and U.K. put into service. They had early self sealing gas tanks and mild pilot armor. Power was 1,000hp at War Emergency compared to 950 (A6M2) and 980 (Ki.43-I). Now for the important information that determines the ability to maneuver in the vertical and horizontal planes. The power loading of these A/C at Combat power and weight: B-239: 5.325 lbs/hp. A6M2: 5.16 lbs/hp. Ki.43-I: 4.6 lbs/hp. Translation: the lower number means better acceleration, climb and turning ability at lower speeds. The wing loadings at Combat power and weight were: B-239: 25.5 lbs/ft2. A6M2: 20.3 lbs/ft2. Ki.43-I: 19.07 lbs/ft2. Translation: The lower the wing loading the better the ability to turn tight at lower speeds. The F2A-1 (B-239) would have been one of the most maneuverable aircraft in the U.S. inventory at the beginning of the war. But, it would have been the slowest (301 mph) and the worst equipped. Finnish pilot Hans Wind did exceptional against poorly trained Soviet pilots in I-153s and even Yak-1s. But he didn't have to face Saburo Sakai in a Zero or Satoshi anabuki in an Oscar.
aiergirl, 20.06.2011 13:54
I'm a little over-sensitive about wartime misinformation and over-simplification. A skilled Buffalo pilot could hang with a Ki 43-I but not an A6M2 for example. Knowing specifics could make the difference.
Ron, e-mail, 05.11.2010 05:56
Some tidbits I recently learned about the death of McGuire: 1. There was a 20-mm shell in his P-38s wreckage. 2. The 2 surviving U.S. pilots thought they were in a fight hat dayt with only one Nakajima fighter, until after the war. They didn't know the plane that shot down Rittmayer was a Ki 84 Frank. They thought it was the same Oscar that started the fight.
Thus the story we know is cooked perhaps. Just a little bit. The drop tanks used as the reason for his death... something more happened. True the Hayate was new in the area, maybe mistaken for an Oscar at that point. But that 20-mm shell didn't come from Akira's Ki 43 Hayabusa. It came from Mizunori's Ki 84. Am I wrong? Did we buy a cover story to save embarrassment?
Ron, e-mail, 31.10.2010 03:10
In 1942 P-40s and P-39s were out-numbered by swarms of Oscars the limited firepower of the Ki 43 was not an individual 1 on 1 comparison. They could gang up on the US fighters like bees. Their combined victories could have also lent itself to inflated individual claims in my opinion. It has been suggested that US P-39s in particular fell victim to the Oscar in comparison to Soviet P-39s fighting the Luftwaffe. While the P-39 could shake a Bf 109 off it's tail at low level, a Ki 43 on it's 6 had all day to pierce the vulnerable coolant lines of the inline engine behind the pilot. There was no out-turning an Oscar. The P-40s may have returned home while the P-39 often didn't because the Warhawk's engine was in the front and the Oscar was in the back. After the US tactics changed and the P-38s and other new US fighters arrived, the Oscar would simply get bounced from on high. However, lest the Allied pilot slipped and did a close-in maneuver and lost speed, the Ki 43 would latch on to the overweight fighter long enough do do damage.
Ron, e-mail, 28.10.2010 04:24
It is sobering to read that the Oscar racked up more victories than any other Japanese fighter. 50% of all kills by the Japanese were at the hands of Oscar pilots! It's no wonder it was the favorite of so many IJAAF aces. That's interesting when you consider the Zero outnumbered it almost 2 to 1. On the other hand, individually the very top aces of the Imperial Navy reached scores about double the Armies best (2 or 3 upwards of 100 or more vs 3 or 4 in the 50s). Also only 5 or 6 IJAAF aces outscored (the top US ace) R. Bong's 40 kills, while 11 IJNAF aces did likewise.
The Ki 43 like the A6M did their Ninja thing like only they could.
Aaron, e-mail, 07.10.2010 07:03
The Ki.43 was, in some ways, more dangerous to deal with than the Zero, chiefly because it had a better rate of roll, was armed with 12.7mm machine guns, had better acceleration, a tighter turning circle and a substatially better rate of climb in distance. That made it an awsome aerobatic apponent that you did not want to engage in a dogfight, especially at low speeds. It had minimal self sealing tanks and pilot armor that eluded the Zero.
Aaron, e-mail, 19.09.2010 03:19
The ki.43 also had superior initial acceleration compared to the contemporary A6m. This was due to its better power loading.
Aaron, e-mail, 15.09.2010 19:15
On a military sheet marked CONFIDENTIAL is a list of several Japanese fighter specifications and performances. The sheet is called COMPARATIVE PERFORMANCE AND CHARACTERISTICS REPRSENTATIVE ENEMY AND ALLIED AIRCRAFT. It lists the Oscar 2 Type 1 Nakajima at a gross weight: 5,500lbs. Engine power is listed at 1,160hp/S.L. and 1000hp/17500ft. Armament: 2x12.7mm w/250rpg. Maximum range: 1,745mls./137mph. w/257gallons of fuel. Radius: 715mls. Maximum speed: 289mph/S.L. 341mph/19,500ft. Rate of climb: 3,290fpm/S.L. 10,000ft/3.0min. 20,000ft/6.5min. That appears to give it a maximum climb of about 3,400fpm around 5,000ft. Service ceiling is listed at 38,200ft. but it does not say at what climb rate. 2,850fpm is listed at 17,500ft. Take off distance in calm weather is listed as 450ft. There are no specifics of how these figures were obtained. I have read several articles from pilots stating that the Ki.43 could outroll and outturn the contemporary A6M but at a cost of firepower.
Ron, e-mail, 29.08.2010 01:37
When Master Sgt. Akira Sugimoto in his humble Ki 43 'Oscar' spotted 4 USAAF new P-38L Lightnings above at 1,500 ft altitude and to his left head-on, little did he know he was about to bring down Major Tom McGuire who was intent on becoming the top US ace. In fact it was the last day for both. Akira evaded McGuire and Weaver and struck the left engine of Doug Thropp Jr. who was about to release his drop tanks, but McGuire ordered him to "save your tanks" and Major Jack Rittmayer drove Akira off of Doug's tail. So The Ki43 switched to attack Weaver's P-38. Tommy tried to save his wingman by turning the borrowed P-38L after Sugimoto's fly weight Hayabusa. At low level the Lightning fully stalled, snap-rolled on it's back and crashed on Neros Island in flames. After escaping into the clouds and landing his damaged Ki43, Akira was shot by Filipino guerillas. A Ki 84 was late coming to the fight with the P-38s. Rittmayer exchanged fire head-on and went down. The Hayate faced the other 2 and they disengaged after a few shots. The avenging Nakajima 'Frank' was flown by Mizunori Fukuda, a 21 year old instructor. McGuire was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor for saving Weaver. Can you believe some folks think he was in a dogfight with a couple Zeros!
Ron, e-mail, 27.08.2010 21:40
In the way I tend to regard the Jack as a navy Tojo I guess. I can see that. They do the same role - point defense interceptor. But I still believe it helps to specify Jack if it's not a Tojo. (Incidently Mitsubishi and Nakajima again Like the Zero and Oscar were) I'm a little over-sensitive about wartime misinformation and over-simplification. A skilled Buffalo pilot could hang with a Ki 43-I but not an A6M2 for example. Knowing specifics could make the difference.
Ron, e-mail, 27.08.2010 21:06
Yeah. Army counterpart. OK. Like if the Japanese pilots called the Republic Lancer or Thunderbolt an army Hellcat or Corsair for purposes of identification. Similar but different. One could argue it helps mis-identify and still tends to degrade the impression of US rank and file aptitude. The fact that it was commonly done doesn't make it any smarter. It's embarrassing. It's something the US media would do!
jerry, e-mail, 26.08.2010 22:10
I didn't mean to imply that it was correct to equate the Oscar with the Zero, I'm just saying it was commonly done by Allied pilots at the time (more as a nickname for identification purposes, than for any comparison of the two plane's capabilities).
Ron, e-mail, 29.01.2010 07:25
That's like tv news calling every Russian fighter a MiG! To us that's heresy. But sad to say, it doesn't insult the intelligence of the general public. Calling an Oscar, a Zero is the same as calling a Spitfire a Hurricane. See what the RAF pilots would think of you then. An A6M 'Zero' is answering the same criteria as it's Army rival so the Ki 43 Oscar has similar broad strengths and weaknesses (Like a P-39 and P-40 in their own way). Now I am tempted to point out a few pertinent differences. The Zero had 4 guns, 7.7 mm and 20 mm and no armor till 1944! Then some 13.2 mm started replacing the 7.7 mm and armor protection was added incrementally. The Oscar took a different approach. It started out with armor (by Japanese standards) and had only 2 guns for the duration of the war! It skipped the low ballistic 20 mm and started with the 7.7 mm cowl guns, then one 7.7 mm and one 12.7 mm, then twin 12.7 mm. The twin 20 mm guns were late comers. The appearance was similar but for the tail. The Zero had that Mitsubishi cone tip like the A5M Claude before it and the J2M Jack that followed. Niether of these Mitsubishis would be mistaken for a Zero by a trained pilot except head-on at a distance. Maybe. But the Oscar is a Nakajima fighter with the slightly rounded rudder shared by that family of fighters, from the Nate to the Frank. It reminds me of the Ki 61 Tony misidentified as a German Bf 109 (or Italian Macchi C 202 - hence the code name Tony) in Japanese service or else a copy, as if it wasn't their own Kawasaki design around the same inline engine. The fact that it took air superiority away from the US fighters when it appeared in the Pacific may have had a little something to do with this WW 2 propaganda. To this day some Americans still believe it. I need a drink!
jerry, e-mail, 01.12.2009 21:22
In addition to "Oscar", the Ki-43 was commonly nicknamed the "Army Zero" for it's resemblance and similar performance characteristics to the more famous Navy A6M.
Ronald, e-mail, 11.09.2009 09:54
Everywhere you look the books say the Ki 43-II used two 12.7 mm MGs in the cowl, unless you look at the evidence at the combat fighter bases. It seems these Browning based Type 1 Ho-103 heavy machine guns were too unreliable and slow so the field crews replaced one of them with the old reliable Vickers based 7.7 mm Type 89. At least the early Ho-103s risked shooting down their own Oscars, so they protected the engine from the gun's misfire, with armor. Judging from their sister Italian weapons, the Breda-SAFAT 7.7 mm and 12.7 mm with the same ammo and lineage, I estimate these synchronized cowl guns may have fired at the rate of 700+ r/m for the 7.7 mm, and 450 r/m for the 12.7 mm IJAAF guns. Both 7.7 mm guns were vickers by design and both 12.7 mm guns were Browning (but the Breda was reliable). Does anyone know the real rates? We know that the synchronized Bredas fired 665 r/m ave, and 575 r/m ave. respectively and unsynchronized they fire 850 r/m and 700 r/m while the faster Japanese versions both fired 900 r/m. Obviously the IJAAF was impressed with prewar Italian MGs and ammo. Small exploding rounds were effective against fighters of the 1930s but the metal skinned fighters were another story (not to mention bombers). Tachikawa was the main builder of production Ki 43-IIIa fighters. But it was the -IIIb that got the 20 mm Ho-5 twin cannon and these were only prototypes.
Torbjörn Kampe, 16.06.2009 19:14
I love this Ki-43. And this teknikal date. And Ki-43 figter ess.
Hiroyuki Takeuchi, e-mail, 30.01.2009 03:41
There are several subtypes to the Ki43II, without official designation changes. The very first type had full span wings like the Ki43I. This type recorded a max speed of 515km/h. The next variant with clipped wings recorded 530km/h. With the "rocket" exhaust systems fitted to later models, the figure went up to 548km/h.
Also, although the number of Ki43IIIs completed is not clear, it seems to have been available in substantial numbers from late 1944. Tachikawa took over Ki43 production after the introduction of the Ki84, and they built about 2500 Ki43s (no subtype information available) so I would not be surprised to see at least a 1000 Ki43IIIs manufacutred. Units like the 64th Sentai chose it as their replacement for the Ki43II over the Ki84 and all of their front line machines were Ki43IIIs by the war's end. Many Kamikaze unit photographs equipped with the Ki43III also exist so they did see substantial action in combat during 44-45.
