Douglas C-133 Cargomaster

Found Ben Seeley. Seeley Insurance near Grassvalley Ca. He survived the ditching off Okinawa.

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our company won the contract on the c 133 and i was assigned to the first one in . and walked the last one out to taxaway was in travis in 65 worked on th plane that went thru the hangar and also in dover on the c 133 that caught on fire at the apu loved that plane that co was ltv

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I worked on the first several C-133's at the Douglas plant in Long Beach in the mid to late 50's. I helped build and install several fiberglass airfoil components in an effort to reduce drag. It was a fun aircraft to work on.

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I flew C-133B's in the 84th ATS at Travis AFB after graduating from pilot training in March 1965 until November 1967 and after a tour flying AC-47's in Viet Nam returned to the the 84th ATS to complete my active duty which ended in 1969. I really liked the plane and thought that it flew well. It did have it's problems, but once the weight and prop problems were solved, it performed missions that no other plane could do. I was privileged to be the aircraft commander on the mission that flew the Apollo 11 Capsule that had just returned from the moon, from Hickham AFB to Travis AFB on the first leg of its trip to the Smithsonian Museum in Washington DC. The capsule fit in the cargo compartment with just inches to spare on either side. No other aircraft could have done that. Anyone interested in this plane and its history should read Cal Taylor's book, mentioned in a previous post here. It is good reading and brings back many memories. The C-133 was a great plane, way ahead of its time.

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Great airplane, can still remember how to perform low /high error checks. Crewed 0135 at Dover.

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Great airplane, can still remember how to perform low /high error checks. Crewed 0135 at Dover.

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Hi folks... I probably emailed a few of you in the past and will again - I do apologize but...

I flew C133A out of DAFB (1st ATS /MAS) as a loadmaster 1963 - 1966. I am looking for anyone that can remember / has any log book or other records of flights into / within Viet Nam specifically listing me as the loadmaster. A longshot I know but it is important. Thanks jrsacchetti@gmail.com

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In Aug 1958 I was transferred from the 15th ATS C-124 to the 39th ATS C133 aircraft. Flew the aircraft until Oct 1966 and then again from May 1970 until Aug 1971 with the 84th at Travis. I enjoyed flying the Weenie Wagon, but yes we all had adventures with the bird. Collapsing tailpipes, loss of prop control-single and double. blow-out of a main landing gear strut going into Lajes. Tricky take-off and landing in the snow, and cross-winds. The flight engineers were the crewmembers who kept the bird flying. I read Cal Taylor's book from cover to cover [ we crewed together in the 84th], he did an incredible amount of research. Some of the information was a bit unsettling, especially the gross weight problem and being underpowered; and moving the aircraft to active duty so quickly. It has always bothered me that all the lost aircraft from Dover, except for first one, were crewed by members of the 1st Squadron. All in all airplane did the job it was designed to do.

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I was crew chief on C-133B 59-529 ar Travis AFB 1970 1971. Working on the C-133's was sure different compaired to C-130's my former plane.I had to get used to the do's and do nots on this plane. Once this was done it was not bad to crew. The C-133's would sure carry a lot of freight. This plane put a new dimension to noise and viabration. When running engines after phase we could get the tables and chairs to move around in the flight line snack bar. Today 59-529 is at Pima Air & Space Museum in Tucson Airzona.

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Worked on this Dog for 2 1 /2yrs. in Okinawa 603rd MASS 1968-71. A real maintains man nitemare I hated this acft.
Glad I never flown on it.

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I accrued 2500 hrs flying C-133A's from Oct 62 until May 67, when I left navigating for pilot training. I had just about finished Bomb-Nav training at Mather AFB, when our entire class was told that we'd finish up the course, but then be pulled out of the SAC pipeline and sent to MATS transports, rather than to B-52s and B-47s. Apparently, a critical navigator shortage had developed in MATS (later to be renamed MAC). We were given choices between C-124s at McGuire, Dover, Donaldson, and Mc Chord AFBs, or the C-133 at Dover. I chose Dover. I accrued 2500 hours flying in the plane, and traveled all over Europe, Asia, and the North American continent. It was very comfortable, considering that it could not fly above the weather. I enjoyed navigating it with 3-star celestial, sun /moon shots, pressure pattern, CONSOLAN, Grid, LORAN, and of course DR! It had a comfortable crew rest lounge area, and in later years a double decker bed was installed on the cargo deck next to the head. On long overwater augmented crew flights (3 pilots, 2 navs, 2 engineers, 1 LM and a 27 hr crew duty day) that bed was a Godsend, since we could at times get some decent winks. I arrived at Dover in the middle of the Cuban Crisis. After signing in at the 39th, I was told by the Ops Officer to find a place for my wife and me to live, buy a lot of cases of canned food and store them in the basement, fill the tubs with water, stay home, and anticipate a possible nuclear strike on the base! All of Dover's C-133s were away on missions flown in /out of Florida, primarily. He said that I'd be called, if and when I was needed. I responded that I'd never even seen a C-133, and didn't know what Nav equipment was aboard and how to use it. His response was, "If we need you, someone will point out the plane, and you can figure out how to navigate it yourself, I'm sure!" My wife was pregnant and not a happy camper. I was a bit awestruck to say the least. I have many unforgettable stories from my days at Dover. Unfortunately, I lost a number of good friends in crashes, while stationed there. Eventually, I went on to be a T-38 instructor pilot for ATC, and thereafter I mostly flew the RF-4C until retirement in 1983 at Shaw AFB. I have a C-133A drawing on my wall that always reminds me of those days, now long gone. I was young, and it was a fun time! These days I continue my work in military aviation writing Dash-1 and NATOPS flight manuals for BOEING fighters, plus, Instructor Operator manuals for BOEING built APACHE's. It's neat to personally see and be in on much of what has changed in military aviation since when I first entered the USAF in Jan 1961!

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I had the sad misfortune to witness a C-133A go down in front of me at Goose Bay. The aircraft struck the ground at 17:10 hours on Saturday the 7th of November, 1964. It was totally dark by then. The C-133A was en-route to Sondestrom Air Base full of food and other supplies.

I am (was) the Boy Scout mentioned in the following excerpt from Cal Taylor's book masterful book 'Remembering An Unsung Giant - The Douglas C-133 Cargomaster and Its People''

Cheers...Chris

USAF PAO
1991 - 2003

Nov 64. C-133A 562014. Goose Bay, Labrador. Aircraft appeared to stall at full power after takeoff. Right wing, then left wing dropped, aircraft impacted 3,300' from end of runway in nose high, left wing down and tail low attitude. Seven killed. Most probable cause a departure stall due to icing or "possibly the aerodynamic instability of the aircraft." The author has had e-mail correspondence with a Canadian who witnessed the crash. He was twelve at the time, on a Boy Scout hike in the area just north of the runway. He stopped to watch the takeoff before getting into the vehicle, and said the airplane lights went up into the sky, then stopped and went straight down. There was no an explosion, just a huge fireball that erupted and he could feel the shock wave from the combustion. He said he heard that the airplane was deiced twice before takeoff. Crew included: 1LT Guy L. Vassalotti (AC), MAJ Frank X. Hearty (FEAC /CP), CPT Charles L. Jenkins (CP), 1LT Douglas H. Brookfield (N), TSG John A. Kitchens and TSG Norman A. Baron (FET), A1C Shelton Toler (LM). NOTE: Bob Hunter,who was in MX at Dover, has contacted me to state very firmly that Sgt Kitchens was killed in the Sep 63 crash, not in this one. Hunter was out of the service in Feb 64, long before the Nov crash. My source is Part A of the USAF accident investigation board report. If anyone has a primary source reference to contradict that report, I would be interested in seeing that material.

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I highly recommend Cal Taylor's extensively researched and detailed textbook regarding our great bird. A pleasure to read. I was at Dover as a pilot from about day one in '58 until Cuba Week in '62. I loved it.

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Hello EX-C-133B Crew Members:

Would any of you happen to have an original POM for a -b model? I would very much like to purchase or trade (?) you something for it. I am a retired ATP and wish to write a special "pilot's manual" for this aircraft. A Xerox copy would work just fine too! Thanks. Capt. Segers

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I was a loadmaster on C-133a's out of Dover from 1964 until discharge Nov 1966. I honestly cannot associate the names here with faces but probably flew with a few of you. I do recall remembering AC's "center of gravity" preferences though and once I was assigned to a crew, would check the AC's name so I would know how to load for the sweet spot (ie the AC's preferred CG).

Also.. do any of you remember "The Nose Wheel Game"? You know... the lug nuts on the nose gear were all numbered and the numbers randomly assigned - one to each crew member. On landing, the number closest to the ground won the pot (I think it was a buck a man).

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While I never flew aboard the C-133's, I did work on the Transient birds that flew thru Lajes AB in 1960-62. Most of these were out of Dover Delaware. I was a Recip man, the C-124's out but we, known as the "Charlie One Crew" worked on the C-124's and 133's as they passed thru Lajes.

I don't recall many problems with the C-133's but one night I remember that on the pre-flight inspection we were pulling that Number 3 Propeller would not come out of Reverse. Don't recall how /why but someone started rotating the propeller backwards and noted that the blade angle responded to such rotation. The light went off over someones head and they continued to rotate the prop backwards until it was back into forward pitch. Now I know there will be someone who does not believe this and while I have never understood it, it did do exactly as I said and the aircraft departed on time.

Another memory of the C-133's was a Major, soon to be Lt. Col. who was our Maintenance Officer had come to Lajes from Dover. He was a C-133 man and did all he could to make sure they received the best and most timely maintenance as they passed thru. I can't remember how to spell his name but it was near Guticunst or some such spelling. If you had a problem on one of the aircraft he was on your ass until it was corrected and the aircraft was back In Commission.

My last year at Lajes was working in Maintenance Control after a back injury working on a Short Time C-124. This tour was most enjoyable and second only to my Vietnam Tour on the EC-47's in 1966 /67.

Take Care,

J.C. Wheeler
Clarksville, Arkansas

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I was assigned to the engine shop after leaving Chanute in 1965-1966. I remember the windy nights, sitting on top of the wings servicing the oil tanks. You had to be careful walking the cases of oil to the area behind the engines. I also worked the phase dock. When the first C-141 arrived I was assigned to the Thrust Reverser Shop, which really sucked. I will always remember the time spent at Travis, and especially the "Weenie Wagon".

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I was a crew chief on Travis C-133B from November 1963 to May 1966. A lot of people felt that this aircraft was dangerous and very hard to maintain. I found that it required constant care but once in shape could be kept that way fairly easily. Maybe after crewing a B-52 it didn't seem as daunting as it would for someone not used to large aircraft. I was one of the original flying crew chief's at Travis (mid 65)and flew for a number of months before being transferred to Sheppard AFB as a tech school instructor. The C-133 was a good aircraft and made history that few people are aware of.

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I have over 3000 hrs as a loadmaster on the C-124 And was getting transferred to the 39th ATS at Dover AFB. I was supposed to fly on the same aircraft that Col Bob McCartney had mentioned in his comments but at the last minute it was decided that I would stay with the C-124. This is really weird. I was at the crash site Mainly because I had guilt feelings but what I saw was unbelievable. The only reconnizable part was a big round disk and then there was some new small wooden caskets.At least I think thats what they were. I will never forget that sad time. I never flew on a C-133 but now I have somebody out there to share these feelings with. Thanks Bob
Al

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I was stationed at Travis AFB as an aircraft electrician when we got the first C-133 and I was given the privilage of working on one. I only had too work on them for 1 year (1962) and I have never been so glad to get off of an aircraft. As an electrician that aircraft was a complete disaster and one of the worst ones I have ever worked on.

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