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sven, 14.06.2017 11:44
Only 5000lb payload. This is very much a prototype.Not much spare for arms an ammo after the fuel for those thirsty old motors.so I would suggest that an opperational aircraft was a good year or two from seeing service.
The great one, e-mail, 26.01.2017 03:12
Imagine if they had of built a bigger version of it, and put fallschimrjagers in it! Bye bye dad's army!
Fredy, e-mail, 18.11.2013 16:29
I did build and flown a 1:4 Modell of the Horten IX, wingspan 4.2M, 2xJetCat P80, Weight 33Kg.
Capt Fuego, e-mail, 02.08.2013 16:14
Most beautiful aircraft i have ever seen!
John Kent, e-mail, 02.08.2013 00:38
I very much doubt that this aircraft would ever have entered full service for the following reasons - 1) The materials for the engines were in very short supply as was the fuel. 2) Training of aircrew and ground crew would have taken at least a year, 2 seat trainers would have had to been built, flight and engineering manuals written and repair facilities set up 3) the German transport network was almost totally destroyed which would have had an effect on the materials supply. 4) Even if it had made it into squadron service then Bletchley Park would have soon known about it and then the Allies would then have bombed the airfields and production facilities. 5) It may have been stealthy at the time but British radar was not standing still and would have improved by the time the 'plane entered service. 6) The RAF had the Meteor as well which was entering squadron service.
miguel, e-mail, 22.05.2013 05:15
incredible.I was searching and read abaot them since i was see this plane in discovery channel
gramm, e-mail, 31.03.2013 00:36
Built of wood, amazing,
Dr. Larry Steinberger Dallas, 13.02.2013 00:52
Recently outside Stuttgart Germany, Pictures were discovered of Horten gliders being flown in 1941. You can see the all wing shape being developed. Five of the glider pilots were shown. Ostermann, Luck, Kemph, Kreisling and Bucher. When I looked closely one was a woman, very striking. I asked who it was, and they said it was Anna Kreisling. I was struck by how relaxed she looked and her smile. From what I understand when Ziller was killed flying the Horten Jet flying wing on Feb. 18th 1945, Hannah Reistch recommended Anna Kreisling to resume the testing. This was not done immediately because the Horten Brothers for the next two months went back and improved the Horten's design and built two more. Anna's first flight in the Horten was on April 24th 1945 in which she spent 45 Minutes having a blast flying it! Her 2nd flight was May 7th 1945 when upon landing she was captured by Pattons Army!
Anthony Wurthmann, e-mail, 27.11.2012 11:57
I am in the logistics gathering for building a full size "Horten HO 229". I figure it to be a 5 year project.
James, e-mail, 18.07.2012 20:56
I am currently building a 1/72 scale kit by PM Model and am in awe of the German's technology not only for this aircraft but for their other jet designs. Considering their shortage of raw materials and fuel shortages their aviation industry still gave it 100%. Credit to them. The war had to end asap and if it had continued till August then a mushroom cloud would have hung somewhere over Germany. The Nazis were evil and had to be crushed.
Sven, 21.02.2012 00:59
Once more guys. Just because it looks similar doesny make it the same.Horten designs were aerodynamically stable. Blended concepts are computer stabilised. #worlds apart not just 60 years.
Gary R., e-mail, 20.02.2012 22:08
Where Can I get true too scale plans of the ho-229
Dr. P. Hostettler, e-mail, 19.02.2012 02:53
NASA's X-48B "Blended Wing Body" plane appears to be based on the Horten principle. I enjoyed reading the comments from illustrious people from around the world on this amazing technological development of the 1940s.
Dr. Simon Lee London, 08.01.2012 10:44
Our research here in London verifies that the Nazi's in 1945 had three flying Horten V-9's that were being tested. Test pilot Ziller was killed in one, and within 5 days Test Pilot Anna Kreisling was assigned to take over evaluation. This Horten was seized by the U.S. Army along with another Horten jet taken inside a hangar 50 miles away. During Operation Paperclip two Horten Jets were brought back to the U.S.A. In 1946 Anna Kreisling was flown out of Germany by the OSS who finally found her pouring coffee for the U.S. Army. Most of us here in England believe she was trying to hide from the Soviets and doing a smashing job of it!
Tricky Loopsy, 19.12.2011 19:07
Adolf Hitler, Horten Ho 229 VS George Bush, B-2 Stealth Spirit
NefariousDrO, e-mail, 21.05.2011 21:50
I have a question for people who know more about this than I do: was the intended factory using forced-labor? There was an article I saw where a crew that was restoring one of the rocket-powered planes built in such a factory found over 100 acts of sabotage during its construction. In fact, it was highly likely the drag-chute for landings wouldn't have deployed! Would that kind of thing have occurred with this aircraft as well?
ANNA KREISLING KG-200, 09.03.2011 01:46
I am taking a break from Ice fishing which is fun because you never know what you are going to catch! Fishing in Antarctica is amazing and I encourage all to try it. I would like to thank everyone for your positive support, I love flying and making sure that Communists do not control our planet. I would like to make clear that the Horten was never used in combat in World War II. I flew it only twice and on my last flight was captured by the U.S. Army. If you want to talk about Luftwaffe combat jets, the ME-262 is your bird, designed to operate under real wartime conditions. Just look how the Jumo Jet engines could be changed in one night, ready for combat the next morning. If the war had lasted another year, then the Horten would have seen combat, but all of us can be thankful that the war ended when it did. In closing I would like to encourage President Obama to station one American Aircraft Carrier off the coast of Libya and bomb the hell out of Col. Kadaffy and put an end to this fighting. The longer this war lasts the greater the danger is to the entire world.
deaftom, e-mail, 27.02.2011 22:54
I used to have a PC flight simulator called "Secret Weapons of the Third Reich" that included this plane among several others. When I "flew" the Ho 229, I could easily wipe the skies free of any gang of P-51s that attempted to attack me! What a great aircraft it could have been. Alas, only the center section remains, now in the National Air and Space Museum near Washington, DC.
Paul Horton, e-mail, 21.12.2010 20:35
The US forces over ran the factory in april 14th 1945 & a near completed GO229V3 was shipped back to the States for review.I believe that very plane sits in the air museum at Chimo California as a static hang ! They also have a komet as well !
ivan, e-mail, 16.12.2010 02:20
the germans are the 1. who have jet engines so u americans can suck thair dick !
Shack, e-mail, 27.11.2010 23:51
If this was released in numbers then the world would have been differant indeed as the worlds population would have fed those ovens till the Master Race were the only ones left. The jewish population were the lab rats to perfect the killing technology & i'd imangine even their axis allies would have been spared for last.So with that in mind there is mankinds idea of the perfect world! Combine Von Braum's projects with these Horten flying wings & bye bye world civilizations.
phuzz, e-mail, 08.10.2010 14:16
Apparently, it was designed to be stealthy, the skin was made up of two layers of plywood, with carbon in between to adsorb radar waves.
PHIL Henderson, 04.10.2010 06:24
I was at a yard-sale in Oakhurst California looking around and this Lady let me look at a photo album that her husband kept in World War II. Over 20 of the black and white pictures taken in 1945 show a very attractive blonde dressed in either Army fatigues or a mechanics outfit posing with dozens of Sherman tank crewmem. In some pictures she is pouring coffee and in others just smiling and posing with the soldiers. I asked her if her husband ever mentioned who she was?? Her reply was it was some German Fraulein named Anna. She said that she was having all the American soldiers donate their candy bars for the children in the nearby villages and towns. She was always busy trying to bring food and clothing to the German families. One of the pictures shows Patton smiling shaking her hand! Could this be Anna Kreisling?? Whoever it was left quite an impression on the American troops!
JOE SCOPA, e-mail, 20.09.2010 21:54
Where can you get a set of Ho229 plans ---It would be great to build a full scale and if it would fly
Mark, e-mail, 20.09.2010 05:55
I had only finished watching a doco on the ME 262 and then im blown away by this work of art HO 229. I sit and shudder thinking we were all less than 18months from speaking german if this thing had been let loose in numbers, Hitler was just to in to much of a hurry with Moscow.
Peter Ledger, 20.08.2010 09:37
I have just finished building a huge 1/18th scale diorama of Anna Kreisling, THE WHITE WOLF OF THE LUFTWAFFE,standing by the side of a Horten jet she was testing in 1945 and being captured by three Sherman tanks from General Patton's army in 1945! Everything is in 1/18th scale!! By the way I talked with Sargent Bill Cokely who was with these Shermans that captured Anna Kreisling and he said that they weren't about to turn her over!! She was so beautiful!! She poured coffee for six months for the U.S. ARMY and the brass never knew anything!!Bill said that in the winter of 1945 everyone in Patton's army built a Sauna for her! There is a famous picture of her in STARS AND STRIPES pouring coffee for General Patton!
Ash, 16.05.2010 13:49
Absolutely beautiful jet. I was under the impression that stealth technology was based on deflection and absorption of radar waves. This aircraft appears to have neither. Regardless, this plane would have slowed down the allied war effort if it had been mass produced. Fortunately, the US still had the atomic bomb in 1945 when the Germans did not. The outcome of the war would not have changed but it we would have lost a lot more lives to this aircraft.
Interestingly, the this plane look similar to the UFO that Kenneth Arnold so famously sighted in 1947. It makes me wonder if the Americans reversed engineered the Horton immediately after the war. It would have been a secret project if they had, right? Five airframes were destroyed by the Allies at the Gothaer Waggonfabrik factory in April 1945 so that the Russians wouldn't get it.
brute4c, 16.02.2010 18:05
In looking at the history of the B2 and the preceding flying wings of Jack Northrop an the Horten brothers, it is clear that much more of the aerodynamic principles discovered by the Hortens were used than that of Mr. Northrop. The width an basic idea of an all wing fits Jacks ideals but when on looks at the center section of Northrops wings from the 30-50's, none have the extended center section that the Hortens used in the HO IX and other designs of theirs. The Horten brothers found increased directional stability and lift with what they called the "middle effect" caused by the drastic increase of the chord of the center section, instead of leaving it as a reverse V like their early designs and those of Northrops. Remember, the original design of the B2 Spirit had a long single V extension to the rear of the cnter section that was later broken up into multiple facets for less overall length and added stealth. By doing so, the B2 actually improves the "middle effect" stability increase by spreading it along the wing span. One year at the Oshkosh Air Show, I attended a forum where the chief designer and chief test pilot of the B2 program spoke. They took some questions at the end. Someone asked if they used the Northrop XB35/YB49 as a starting point and that was denied. I asked if they and the Horten info, that too was denied.
I find that hard to believe as they went far afield of "normal" and at great expense. If they did not use the existing knowledge, at least in learning about the subject, they arent as wise as one would think and certainly shortsighted in some regards.
The original design of the B2 SCREAMS Horten HO IX in large scale with modern electronics and flight controls.
michael, e-mail, 31.12.2009 05:48
personaly, the horton HO 229 is my personal faverote WW2 German jet.
skullangel, 27.12.2009 04:07
If they built this aircraft in large numbers we'd all be speaking german.
James Wittewr, e-mail, 07.12.2009 02:53
Northrup Grunman recently built a full size model of the 229 and they found out that it was indeed a stealth fighter that would only have given the English military only about a 2:00 minute warning that the fighter was in the air and heading their way. If this fighter was mass produced during WWII it may have changed the outcome, especially if the Amerika Bomber was built.
Clifford, e-mail, 04.12.2009 23:06
Wow,
What a spectacular plane, although I suppose it had some flaws too. For example, apparently one prototype lost an engine causing a loss of control and crash. The DC-3 & various derivatives on the other hand, had a reputation to be able to fly & land quite well with a single engine.
Was it designed to be a stealth plane?
I suppose in an era when Gliders were being used for troop transports, stealth was an issue. Yet, perhaps we're reading too much into the much later striking resemblance to the B-2 Stealth Bomber. As mentioned, there were other "flying wing" planes at the time, and this bears less resemblance to the F-117 stealth fighter. Much of the design also indicates simple elegance, and low drag.
Wood?
It is cheap, durable, good strength to weight ratio. If the plane had been successful, they could have made millions of them.
This certainly wasn't the only wooden plane of the era. Look at the Spruce Goose, for example.
Perhaps there is more to that comparison. A small "rogue" designer/manufacturer. Untested, unique plane design. Aluminum in tight supply. Perhaps Hitler would only allow the Horton Brothers to use wood for the construction, or at least for the prototypes. Or... maybe the Hortons could only afford to buy wood.
Of course Messerschmidt was allowed to build their planes with aluminum.
Anyway, I hope the original gets restored. Or even reassembled and displayed as-is if it is deemed that restoration would destroy or replace too much of the original plane. And, while it would be wonderful to see it fly, the engines probably wouldn't support a safe flight.
Then the question is... should it be returned to Germany? It is their plane afterall.
Swedish ww2 geek., e-mail, 03.11.2009 23:41
If you find this cool you should see the "Amerika Bomber",cant find much information on the net, but the plane was a bigger version of the Gotha Go 229, with 6 jetengines. It was designed to drop a nuclear bomb on New york. Luckely enogh the allies stopped it.
paul scott, e-mail, 26.08.2009 02:00
The Germans or Nazis, whatever your outlook, produced another world-beating design, fortunately for us, it didn't like so many, really have time to get off the ground as it were. Truly outstanding and we can see where all the major proponents of 'flying wings', Germany the USA and De Havilland in the UK, produced '163 Comet' lookalikes, though with its jets this made the grade better. would be nice to have seen film of it flying, but the only real pics I've seen is where American scientists/engineers have it in a hangar. hopefully one day, someone will find 'lost film' of it.
Leo Rudnicki, e-mail, 08.08.2009 19:53
Francis Bacon first espoused the "scientific method". Don't trust what you read. V stands for "versuchsmachine" (prototype) Versuchs noch mal. Me (or Bf)-109's were produced in variants A through K. And maybe the Ho-229 was more like the Avenger II. It never flew either. Enjoyed the read, Tom.
Tom Krapf, e-mail, 08.08.2009 17:13
A Truly revolutionary aircraft about which there is a ton of incorrect information on the web.
The B2 has very little in common with the Ho 229. For one thing it is over three times larger. The B2 is more closely related to the Ho 18, which was a proposed all-wing bomber that was to carry Germany's atomic bomb to New York City. The Ho 18 was still in the design phase when the war ended. Nothing was ever built.
What truly delayed aircraft like this from entering mass production before the end of the war was jet engine technology. The Me 262 could adapt to constantly changing engine sizes because the engines hung under the wing in nacels. If engine specs changed they could just build different cowlings. The Ho 229 placed the engines inside the center section of the aircraft. If the specifications, particularly the diameter, changed the entire airframe had to be redesigned. The Ho 229 was designed with the use of two BMW 002 (also called the 3302) engines in mind, but BMW dropped this engine in favor of the 003. The Ho 229 V1 was converted to a glider because redesigning it for the 003 engines, which still weren't ready anyway, would have meant missing a deadline set by Goering for the first flight of the aircraft. The V1 flew well, albeit without power. The V2 was designed to house the 003, which changed twice during development and required redesigns to the airframe each time, and then still wasn't ready so a pair of Junkers Jumo 004B engines were used, requiring yet another redesign. The V3 was built with a pair of 004Bs from the onset, but the V3 was not complete at war's end. In fact former Horten workers were hired by U.S. General McDonald to complete the aircraft after the war was over so that it could be studied and flown. The flying never happened. It was given to the British initially, who wanted to replace the 004Bs with a pair of Rolls Royce Nenes, but determined that it would be too difficult and the results not worth the effort. The British returned the V3 to the US where it has languished ever since.
Never, ever, ever refer to this aircraft as a Go 229, or even worse a Gotha Go 229. This is totally incorrect and insults the true designers of the aircraft who were the ones who received the approval and funding of Goering to build the Ho 229. This confusion stems from the fact that Gothaer Wagonfabrik AG was tasked with building the aircraft as it entered series production. Essentially Gotha was building the aircraft under license, as the Horten brothers did not have the facilities to mass produce the aircraft; in point of fact both were active service Luftwaffe at the time, and for the duration of the war. The official designation handed down by the RLM is the Horten Ho 8-229. Ho designates the manufacturer, in this case Horten (Me for Messerschmitt, He for Heinkel, etc.). 8 designates a powered aircraft (gliders were designated 108). 229 is a series number assigned by the RLM, who gave various manufacturers a series of numbers to use for their models, which is why you will note that aircraft from the same manufacturer often have number designations that are close together, even if the aircraft differ greatly. The RLM would on occasion reassign numbers to other manufacturers if the original manufacturer wasn't using the number. The V and number after the aircraft states that it is experimental and the number of the prototype. V is for Versuch, which is German for experimental. Production aircraft would not have used the V designation; they would have used another letter as seen with the Me 109 which flew in A through G variants.
There is some great information available on this aircraft, but I caution anyone from trusting the info that is disseminated on the web. If you really want to be in the know read the books by David Myhra, who is probably the best living authority on the Ho 229 and the Horten brothers. He has written their biography "The Horten Brothers and Their All-Wing Aircraft" for which he interviewed both Walter and Reimar, as well as several other books on the Ho 229 specifically.
blofeld, e-mail, 03.08.2009 04:35
Spitzenklasse flugzeugmaschinenbau fur fliegen nach Russland.Auf Wiedersehen, ESB
Paco, e-mail, 13.07.2009 19:39
Very good aircraft
Dave, e-mail, 02.07.2009 23:10
we are indeed very lucky,this aircraft along with the 262 & 163 would have completely altered the outcome of the war, if they had gotten into any kind of production-But owing to Hitlers absolute stupidity - in all areas of the military - We have the present outcome.
Doug Beasley, e-mail, 30.06.2009 21:25
I like that wing aircraft. I think the Germans would of started making that aircraft later to start another war. I think i like to make a version of this aircraft. I think it would be neat to fly around the city or the country to get some TV airtime. It looks easy to build.
Jim Kleiner, e-mail, 30.06.2009 07:16
This aircraft was a Horten IX(9) or a H-229 v3, not a Go-229 (even if Goethaerfabrik were to build them). The Hortens developed the Nurflugel (all-wing) aircraft up from gliders starting in the early 1930's. They designed, tested and flew some 40 (or more) gliders and motorized airplanes with little support from any major manufacturers (or established aeronautical engineers). The Hortens were true aviation pioneers. Thank you both, Reimar and Walter.
Mike, e-mail, 29.06.2009 19:07
Last night (6-29-09) The National Geographic Channel ran a program on the Horton 229/Ho IX. The aircraft was built from scratch (a full size reproduction) using original plans and tested against 1940's radar. A beautifull plane and a spectacular show! It waill air again on July 15. Check the link for more: http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/episode/hitler-s-stealth-fighter-3942/Overview12#tab-Photos/14
Fred Wesselius, e-mail, 29.06.2009 16:23
Looks to me very similar to the Komet without the vertical stabilizer. The German engineers were extremely innovative. U.S. and U.S.S.R. later copied and took credit for many of their ideas.
murray, e-mail, 27.06.2009 04:57
if hitler could have massed produced the me-262, long enough to make the horton go-229 into a bomber , then what would ww2 could have been like ? stalin would have been driven out of moscow.... a possible stale mate with the west ?
Ron, e-mail, 17.06.2009 14:59
Does anyone know where I may be able to get plans suitable for Radio Control Model build of the XII and Ho229 Any help appreciated
ringo, e-mail, 17.05.2009 06:36
i have a modle of this plane and it is magnifisant
leo rudnicki, e-mail, 09.04.2009 23:27
Nice comments, Jeff. Every aircraft builder based his designs on something before except two brothers from Ohio. The tried to copy lilienthal but found nis data flawed. And engineers and designers build aircraft. Demented,power-crazed murderers become nazis or stalin. Burgess- Dunne may have "invented" the flying wing when Jack and the Hortens were in diapers. And doesn't anyone care that this aircraft, suitably treated with RAM, ferrite paint, carbon laminate,conical jet intake spike and RAM baffles and a gold tinted canopy, could have been the first generation stealth airplane if only the myriad technological and metallurgical hurdles facing proper engine manufacture had been solved. I heard they did use carbon/sawdust in the skinning.
Jeff, e-mail, 06.04.2009 18:53
(Kong) Electric Flight International has some nice plans that are for the Ho IX and uses a pair od WeMoTec ducted fans with a 68.5" (1740mm) wingspan. The ribs are all built up, not sheet, so it can be safely enlarged. I got my plans from an Ebay supplier.
Jeff, e-mail, 06.04.2009 18:46
(BoydKid) The Northrop N9M and Horton Go 229 were designed separately at about the same time, without the knowledge of the other (AFAIK). The N9m first flew in 1941, 4 years before we aquired the Go 229 at the end of the war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_N-9M
Jack Northrop had a national reputation for an interest in flying wings before the war (and before we recovered wing technology from Germany). He got permission to use the wing plans and materials for aircraft consideration.
The US Government nixxed any flying wing plans, not Northrop (Northrop wanted to continue, but lost Federal funding), on the grounds that there were other designs that were more acceptable platforms, better handling, cheaper, conventional, and/or easier to build.
(Castle22R) Hitler didn't Concieve this design, the Horton brothers did, and Goering gave the official authority to build it. Hitler had no part in it but to give his ok to Goering.
I hope the NASM does restore this plane and display it with their Me 262 in the same exhibition hall, perhaps with some Mustangs and P-38's and a N9M.
Kong, e-mail, 19.02.2009 18:50
Hi there, Is there anywhere that I can find the original plans of Horten GO-229? Best regards, Kong
J P Brito, e-mail, 15.01.2009 01:32
If you'll take the time to explore in detail another great website, www.luft46.com, you'll see how advanced the German aerospace investigation was by late wartime (also NASA took huge profits on this), fortunately that Hitler and the people sorrounding him were blind enough to save us from bigger troubles :-)
wayne holmes, 13.01.2009 03:31
Where is the Horten XVIII Amerika bomber ??
Boyd Kidd, e-mail, 06.01.2009 19:59
You think that is Bad? look at the stupidity demonstrated by the United States. It first of all has all of this technology, with copies dropped into their hand at the Wars end. What does it do with it? I locks it away for 50 - 60 - 70 Years until some dummy comes along and says what is this. Then we take off running ninety on a thrity mph track telling the world about all of this new Technology! In a pigs eye new. The bottem line here is that that Russians understood what they got, looked at it immediately, put it into service or set it asside, developing their weapons from the AK through A Bomb based on German designs. While at the same time, we went back to sleep, hell the War was over!
fabio, 04.01.2009 14:34
A Wonderfull Flying Wing!!! Iam wanted Skins For This Beautifull Flying Wing !!!
bao, e-mail, 02.01.2009 16:41
Now there are only one survival go 229 protype there was good flying wing fighter
Valentin, e-mail, 18.11.2008 22:17
Do you have the dawing of GO 229? If who have sand my plise
Volker Steiger, 01.10.2008 17:41
You can fly this baby in IL2, a famous Flightsim for PC. They designed the model based on original plans.
Joshrv144, e-mail, 26.09.2008 03:31
Best fighter in the Luftwaffe at that time in my opinion. The Horten Ho 229 looks similar to the XB-35, YB-49 and the B-2
Engel, 24.08.2008 11:34
Wings are available !
B2 might have only looked like a copy would this aircraft already have been restored and on display.
L.Head, e-mail, 28.07.2008 15:45
war ended and the advanced tech info goes to Jack Northrop..
Castle22r, e-mail, 12.07.2008 01:29
Only a Nazi like Hitler could even deceive a plane like this.Of all my 7 years of studying ww2 I have never saw anything like this.
Harry peters, 14.05.2008 18:05
amazing
Harry peters, 14.05.2008 18:05
amazing
Aero-Fox, 27.03.2008 17:44
Apparently, the sample th U.S got ahold of is being restored at the Smithsonian Institution for the Air & Space museum...who knows, they may even get it into flyable condition...the center fuselage and engines are mostly intact, but new wings have to be built...
nitu andrei, e-mail, 10.03.2008 20:32
it whant to kill you,it look's like it came from hell(i'm from romania)
nitu andrei, e-mail, 10.03.2008 20:29
a nice aircraft
Massimo Battistin, e-mail, 10.03.2008 00:21
I'm italian (forgive my naive english). I read on H. Nowarra's four volume essay about history of german aircraft technology that a sample of this revolutionary aircraft was brought in U.S.A., together with large amount of drawings and projects for the so called "wunderwaffen"(==wonderweapons).
Dr. Nikholas M. Stage--PHD., e-mail, 10.11.2007 17:07
This is where the modern USAF B-2 "stealth-Spirit" bomber got it's start with the Horten GO-229, more than sixty years ago.
Nazi Germany was well ahead in military aircraft technology, but Hitler failed to give his "go-ahead" in deployment of these aircraft. Ergo hoc; Germany lost World War Two. ALSO: Soviet leader Joseph Stalin was of the same "mind-set" as Hitler, but he, Stalin, had geography,time, and the vastness of the Soviet geo-political heartland to "save his skin".
