Does anyome know the RCS numbers of the nighthawk vs the YF23? Better.....worse? Obviously the F117 is a slug in the air. I hate politics....lol

I dont know all the facts, but have read and watched as many shows as possible about the competition. And although the reptor won, I am still very intrigued by the F/A 23....and I will give it that status myself. America didnt lose a step either way. I just got to see my first fligt of a F22 over Traverse Bay Michigan on july 3rd, it is an amazing aircraft. I love the thing, it is very manueverabl3e and can perform things that other aircraft cannot, due to thrust vectoring. I will say that the F/A 23 is the sweetest plane that i have ever seen, and if everything I've read is true, there is no way NG should ever scrap the design ! Period ! But I also beleive that we should, as a country and not a company, be smart enought not to let that kind of technology get outside this country! That plane has a use in our military, F117s are fast aproaching ancient. Hopefully Northrup G will just keep inproving the plane and avionics.....we dont want war to be fair.....we want it to be quick and effective. I am just happy to be an american and to be protected by such an amazing military !

Hey Guys, I loved the F-23 too and thought it was a stunning looking plane. I wouldn't be too disheartened by the F-22 though as it is still the best fighter out there! I'm a Brit and would love it if the RAF could get their hands on the Raptor. I'm not particularly down on the Typhoon and think once we get the vector update and improved engine it will be a formidable aircraft and stealth aside nearly the equal of the Raptor. It may in fact be as good in a dog fight at this point. Trouble is it will never get into one as the Raptor will have shot it down 60 miles away! All in all though i loved the F-23, it was probably the best looking aircraft i've ever seen (much better than the Eagle or Tomcat), but you still got it pretty good in the USAF, I can't see any country getting a better aircraft for a few years to come!!

1. The New Inproved newest Fighter Jet will has a higher top Speed too! Yf-23 Figher Jet#2 is top Speed is about mack 2.7+ too! Same as the F-22 Fighter Jet too! It"s top Speed is 2.7 + too. Agreed !!!!!! The F-35 Top Speed is Mack 2.9 + too!!

Mike: The contrail(s) you speak of were an anomaly only on the right wing of the YF-23, and are not indicative of a failure in the design. A simple tweak to the leading edge after conclusion of flight testing would have been the fix on PAV-1 (PAV-2 did not demonstrate a similar "problem"). Furthermore, The YF-23 would not have required more "me" time in the hangar, as you state - the F-22 has taken 12 years in development, in a politically-charged atmosphere.
Just FYI - after the contract was awarded to Lockheed for the F-22, they approached Northrop / McAir and offered to purchase one of the two YF-23s - in order to "mitigate further development time in reducing the F-22's RCS" - Northrop politely extended a middle finger to Lockheed and refused the sale. Lockheed engineers supposedly used photographs and surreptitious after-hours measurements of the existing aircraft planforms to change the F-22's planform to what it is today in the F-22A. Check for yourself - find any website that gives planform views of the YF-22 vs. F-22A, then compare those to the YF-23. Family resemblance? Sure.

so then, most of you folks prefer the back-up quarterback, right? i'm surprised that the problem of wingtip contrails during normal maneuvering of the YF-23 haven't been mentioned here. nothing quite like advertising your difficult to detect aircraft's presence with some unwanted contrails, huh? any upsides to the YF-23 were not worth the risk associated with the technologies used to achieve those gains. if the poop ever hits the air mover, i'd rather we have an aircraft that doesn't require too much "me" time in the hangar.

Im proud to say that I was a member of the debelopment of the yf/22.yf/23.R.N.D TRUST REVERSER nassles.Im now 45 years old living the american dream here in me country mexico.I will do it oll over again. I feel that f23 is not a figther is a work of art

hello! some of guys, can send me planes to build a rc model of northtrop? please? thanks!

I'm disinclined to favor comments on appearance, or from those with an obvious bias.

My understanding of the decision breaks down to this:
1) The F-22 was smaller and lighter (USAF fighter types are strongly biased toward minimum size and weight);
2) The F-22 was less risky and less expensive (if F-23 materials are similar to B-2 materials they could be a long-term maintenance nightmare and require the same special handling as the B-2, limiting deployability);
3) The F-22 was more maneuverable (by the time an engagement becomes a dog-fight, speed becomes irrelevant and energy addition and maneuverability become paramount--speed is merely a means of adding energy or disengaging);
4) The F-23 had a slightly smaller RCS (It is all well and good to have the RCS of a B-B, but if the RCS of a ball bearing is more than sufficient are the added weight, cost and complexity worth the tax dollars?);
5) The F-23 was faster (no aircraft truly fights at top speed--the speeds that are important are cornering speed, climb speed, cruising speed, and for interceptors, dash speed);
6) The F-23 had longer range (nice to have, but not a trump over othr factors);
7) The F-22 was more readily adaptable to using hard-points in environments that did not require maximum steath (not every enemy fields SA-12s and AA-12s, most field nothing better than an SA-18);
8) Both aircraft met the USAF's requirements (and both had their Congressional supporters, so neither side was without Senators and Representatives conspiring on its behalf).

If both aircraft meet requirements, you buy the cheaper aircraft to make the tax-dollars go farther.

As for appearance, neither aircraft is as attractive as the F-15 and F-14 both of which are classic designs. Stealth may cause aircraft to look futuristic, but it also causes them to look ungainly.

I really like this thing.. more than Raptor

Wow I like this one. It looks very sophisticated and Geneuous.Wooow!!!!!!!!!!

The issue may be a result ofpolitics and design! The RCS of the F-23 was greater than that of the F-22 - look at the canopy design / difference and note the significance of that design difference! There is your issue - not that it makes any difference at this time!

The fact is the YF-22 had its doors blown off by the YF-23 when the side by side speed test were conducted it was the YF-22 STANDING STILL not an F-15!The F-22 IS THE BEST OF THE BEST MSY SEE THE F-23BLACKWIDOW 2 OUT OF MOTHBALLS SOME DAY.

I thought that the f-22 was the best of the best. Then i found out about the F-23. SO now every time i see a f-22 it just looks so stupid. The F-23 was much more of a stealth design and was very maneuverable, but that the USAF's problem. So thanks again for shooting your self in the food AGAIN!!!

im a mexican citizen and berry fortuned for the oportuniti to be a part of a teem member of the construccion of this magnificent machine I worked on rnd. on the late 80s/90s Im gratful to that grate country that make me feel like one of his oun.......I will doit oll ober again tanks.

Ther is no way the F22 should have won that contest. Before i started studying the 23 i was absolutely fascinated by the 22 but now...

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I guess it just gives new meaning to the old saying "good enough for government work".

A naval fighter can be operated from land bases, but not necessarily the other way. It's more than a tailhook. Also, the wide range of naval munitions must be stored internally. Of course, the Air Force made a cute new skinnybomb for the F-22 just for show. I'm reminded of the Luftwaffe aversion to puchasing the He-100D or any Heinkel fighter because they made bombers. The government went through enough to kill the F-20. Even chuck couldn`t save it. They were on sale through the State Department! Ever see anybody in State that you would buy a car from! The decision for the F-22 was made in the usual way, by people who didn`t know or care and were made all the richer for it.

the navy could have saved a packet of money if they selected the yf 23 to fill the roles of a-12 f35 f18e/g